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TheAncientGeek comments on The mathematical universe: the map that is the territory - Less Wrong
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No, the claim of Tegmarkian immaterialism is not that there is another substance other than matter.
You were previously saying that a log or record of mental style acrivity was probably produced by a mind. This is an explanation of an argument that you said supports "something to.like the MUH ". I still don'see how it does,. I am also puzzled that you thave been arguing against immaterialism throughout.
Thanks for editing-- I'm still puzzled.
I also don't know what "Tegmarkian immaterialism" is and I'm not arguing for or against it. I do not know what "immaterialism" is and I'm also not arguing for or against that. (Meta: stop giving either sides of my arguments names without first giving the names definitions!)
If anything, let's call my position "non-distinctionalism"-- I maintain that there's no other coherent models for the word "exist" than the one I mentioned earlier, and people who use the word "exist" without that model are just talking gibberish. There's no distinction between "material existence" and "immaterial existence" in the sense that the first clause of this sentence is meaningless noise. I can be disproved by being informed of another coherent model. I maintain that my thought experiment shows that it's difficult to hold any distinction between exists-in-reality and exists-in-the-mathematical-multiverse.
(If I were king of the world, "immaterial existence" would mean "exists in an inaccessible place of the mathematical universe", but for me to use the term that way would currently be idiosyncratic and just confuse everyone further.)
You have mentioned the Mathematical Universe hypothesis several times, and Tegmark's is a name very much associated with it, as WP states:
"In physics and cosmology, the mathematical universe hypothesis (MUH), also known as the Ultimate Ensemble, is a speculative "theory of everything" (TOE) proposed by the theoretical physicist, Max Tegmark.[1]"
You second sentence doens't follow from your first. Someone can define "material existence" as existence in your sense, plus some additional constraint, such as the "world" in which the pattern is found being a material world.
Standard arguments against MUH (etc) are that they predict too much weirdness. But that is an arguemnt against the truth of MUH, not for the coherence of materialism. However, you have not acutally argued against the coherence of materialism. Your definition of existene doesn't requires worlds to be material or immaterial, but it also doesn't require them to be neither.
Right, I know what the MUH is, I know who Tegmark is, I just don't recognize terms that are a combination of his name and (im)materialism. Please taboo your terms! I don't know what they mean to you!
Yes, if you look at the last paragraph, I (tried to) say explicitly that is my desired state of the terms, it's just not the standard usage, afaik.
So, if I were writing the terms, "material existence" = exists in our sub-branch of the MUH, "immaterial existence" = exists in a sub-branch of the MUH inaccessible to us (except via simulation). However, I don't think people ordinarily use the word "material" to mean this.
Actually, now that I think about it, I think that's a bad way to think of things. Really, the concept those terms would express is accessibility, not existence. When I hear other people say things like "immaterial existence", my brain interprets that as "exists, but not in a branch of the MUH," which I think is gibberish.
Perhaps you could interpret their remarks according to the Principle of Charity: since their remarks are nonsense under you interpretation, they probably have a different one in mind.
I believe if you read my previous comments, you'll see that they all are attempts to do exactly this. I will bow out of this conversation now.
(Meta: you're tripping my troll sensers. I'm sorry if it's unintentional on your part. I'm just not getting the sense that you're trying to understand me. Or it's the case that the two of us just really cannot communicate in this forum. Either way, it's time to call it quits.)
EDIT: Your response to this has caused my P(you're trolling me) to rise from ~60% to ~95%.
You mean you had some even more nonsencial interpetations in mind, and chose the most charitable?
I think we are having very significant communication difficulties. I am very puzzled that you think that I think that I'm arguing against MUH. I think something like MUH is likely true. I do not know what "Tegmarkian materialism" is and I'm not defending or attacking it. I also cannot make sense of some of your sentences, there seems to be some sort of editing problem.
I think you have been arguing against immaterialism, and that Tegmarkian MUH is a form of immaterialism.
I have edited my previous comment.