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PhilGoetz comments on The Shabbos goy - Less Wrong
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Comments (85)
I wonder if the low rating of this post is because people are more touchy about Jews than they are about Christians. People here think it's fine to criticize Christianity all day. Shouldn't it be equally acceptable to criticize Judaism? (I criticized both.)
I'm going to put up 4 replies to this comment, in matched pairs for karma balance. If you vote, vote on both comments in a pair. Comment if you found one pair harder to vote on.
ADDED: Wow, the results surprised me. I would have found it hard to upvote "Judaism is stupid". My brain would direct it, but my finger would protest.
Christianity is stupid.
Judaism is stupid.
You are probably right. The kind of thinking that implements political correctness does not seem to be particularly compatible with the abstract thought involved in making their disapproval consistent.
For what it is worth I like the post for the content but probably would have enjoyed it slightly more with the original title. I just love provocative irony.
I just wasn't that interested in the subject matter (didn't vote up or down) but you do use the word "Jew" a lot. And I'm a little uncomfortable with it as a general term for a way to work around ethical rules.
I understand the point you're making and I'm not offended but the last couple thousand years of antisemitism might distract from your point.
I see - If people use "Jew" to mean "the agent you need to help you work around problems in your morals", the negative association bleeds over onto the word "Jew", even though it's the Christian (in the money-lending example) who's committing the error.
Writing is more memorable when you use emotionally-laden terms, but also riskier.
I used the term "Christian" a lot, too; and implied the Christians were the ones at fault. But that wasn't uncomfortable?
I'm thinking how to reword it so that it doesn't go flat, but so far nothing comes to mind.
Is there an existing term to refer to the person you use to commit your sins for you? Scapegoat isn't right. Is there a word for a person hired to operate electric devices for you on the Sabbath?
In looking for the answer to this, I found this absolutely wonderful page explaining different rules about the use of electricity on the Sabbath. Studying it would make an excellent preparation for law school. Here's a quote:
Shabbos goy.
Awesome!
So it's less-offensive to use the term "Shabbos goy", which logically criticizes Judaism, than to use the term "Jew", which creates a negative association with Judaism.
If that's so, then if you tell people
what they hear are the associations
Jew is just a really loaded word because it is used by various sorts of supremacists. "Jewish person" can be substituted without any kind of negative connotation.
Got here late -- what was the original title?
"Kill the Jews".
I guess some people are just touchy.
Necessary Jews
When I first saw it under that title, before I read the article, I read it as contrasting with "Sufficient Jews" or possibly "Contingent Jews".
I'm still enjoying imagining what those could possibly mean.
Is the plural Shabbos goyim?
I'd assume so. I'm only half-Jewish on my dad's side, and he was brought up in a fairly liberal sect and ditched even that shortly after getting bar mitzvahed and didn't pass on a Jewish surname - I'm as non-Jewish as one can get while retaining any claim to it at all. So I'm not a proper authority on the subject.
I thought that you're considered Jewish if your mother was Jewish, and not Jewish if she wasn't.
That depends on the sect, apparently.
Exactly. Genetics, of course, don't give a damn whence the Jewishness, and it didn't inhibit my ability to pick up secondhand culture either except inasmuch as that set of grandparents died when I was a kid, but my point was that it being on my dad's side makes me "less Jewish" by a relevant metric.
Jack is right that it's distracting, and Phil is right that it shouldn't be.
"Henchman" or "cat's-paw" seem fine to me.