Psychohistorian comments on Rationality quotes: April 2010 - Less Wrong

5 Post author: wnoise 01 April 2010 08:41PM

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Comment author: Psychohistorian 02 April 2010 12:40:52AM 2 points [-]

"There are no married bachelors."

Comment author: SilasBarta 07 April 2010 05:06:30PM 2 points [-]

Tom and Sue, acquaintances through friends of theirs, got legally married, with no ceremony, in order for Tom to avoid being drafted to fight in a war. They barely know each other. They have not spoken to each other in a long time and (obviously) have no children. Neither wears a wedding ring. They plan to void the marriage as soon as the laws allow, with no further transfer of property between them.

Tom is a married bachelor.


There's a reason the term "bachelor" exists, and it's not to make Kant right.

Comment author: Jack 07 April 2010 05:20:49PM 2 points [-]

This just looks like an instance of using contradictory language to indicate that Tom fits the the conventional definitions of neither a bachelor or a married man. You could also say Tom is a single spouse. Bachelor happens to have connotations of referring to lifestyle rather than legal status which makes your meaning plainer. The fact that language is flexible enough to get around logic doesn't mean married bachelor isn't a logical contradiction or that Kant is wrong.

Comment author: SilasBarta 07 April 2010 05:31:42PM *  4 points [-]

My point is that we have words because they call out a useful, albeit fuzzy, blob of conceptspace. We may try to claim that two words mean the same thing, but if there are different words, there's probably a reason -- because we want to reference different concepts ("connotations") in someone's mind.

It's important to distinguish between the concepts we are trying to reference, vs. some objective equivalence we think exists in the territory. The territory actually includes minds that think different thoughts on hearing "unmarried" vs. "bachelor".

ETA: My point regarding Kant was this: He should have seen statements like "All bachelors are unmarried" as evidence regarding how humans decide to use words, not as evidence for the existence of certain categories in reality's most fundamental ontology.

Comment author: Tyrrell_McAllister 08 April 2010 12:14:38AM *  0 points [-]

My point regarding Kant was this: He should have seen statements like "All bachelors are unmarried" as evidence regarding how humans decide to use words, not as evidence for the existence of certain categories in reality's most fundamental ontology.

By "certain categories in reality's most fundamental ontology", do you mean the synthetic/analytic distinction? He wouldn't consider that distinction to be part of reality's most fundamental ontology. He would disavow any ability to get at "fundamental reality", which he would consider to be intrinsically out of reach, locked away in the inaccessible numinous.

Actually, he would say something very close to what you wrote when you said that he "should have seen statements like 'All bachelors are unmarried' as evidence regarding how humans decide to use words". What he would say is that the statement is evidence regarding how humans have decided to build a certain concept out of other concepts.

If you affirm the assertion "All bachelors are unmarried" to yourself, then what you are doing, on Kant's view, is inspecting the concept "bachelor" in your own mind and finding the concept "unmarried" to be among its building blocks. The assertion is analytic because one confirms it to oneself in this way.

Analyticity doesn't have to do with what the things you call bachelors are like in and of themselves. So it's not about fundamental reality. Rather, analysis is the act of inspecting how a concept is put together in your mind, and analytic assertions are just assertions that analysis can justify, such as that one concept is part of another concept.

Kant would even allow that you could make a mistake while carrying out this inspection. You might think that "unmarried" was one of the original pieces out of which you had built "bachelor", when in fact you just now snuck in "unmarried" to form some new concept without realizing it. That is, you might have just unknowingly carried out an act of synthesis. Kant would say, though, that you can reach effective certainty if you are sufficiently careful, just as you can reach effective certainty about a simple arithmetical sum if you perform the sum with sufficient care.

[The above is just to clarify Kant's claims, not to endorse them.]

Comment author: Jack 07 April 2010 05:36:18PM 0 points [-]

I don't disagree with anything here.

Comment author: SilasBarta 07 April 2010 05:43:10PM 0 points [-]

Rockin'.

I'd tie the point back to the original quotation, but I'm losing interest now and actually kind of busy...

Comment author: Psychohistorian 08 April 2010 03:51:24PM 0 points [-]

This is just playing with connotations. A bachelor is an unmarried man, so one could say that Tom acts like a bachelor despite being married. He is not a bachelor, though. To show this has a practical implication, assume Tom met Mary: the two could not get married immediately. If he were a bachelor, they could. He therefore lacks necessary properties of bachelorness (most significantly, not being married), and cannot be a bachelor, even if he may live his life much as a bachelor would.

Comment author: Tiiba 02 April 2010 12:54:20PM 2 points [-]

My dad has a Bachelor's degree.

Comment author: RolfAndreassen 02 April 2010 06:53:40PM 0 points [-]

Is he married?

Comment author: Tiiba 02 April 2010 09:09:28PM *  1 point [-]

Yes, to mom.

Comment author: Psychohistorian 04 April 2010 07:54:01PM *  1 point [-]

"There are no married unmarried men."

I add this grudgingly, as deliberately seeking ambiguity in a clear sentence is just being fatuous; it's not a valid objection.

Comment author: Psychohistorian 08 April 2010 04:37:55PM 1 point [-]

I was wrong. On further reflection, this is a failed attempt to refute this point, though I don't think the ensuing discussion of Kant actually gets to why.

If you're familiar with the definition of bachelor, then this statement equates to, "There are no unmarried married men." Any statement of the form "No A are not-A" is completely uninformative. As it can be decided a priori for any consistent value of A, stating it demonstrates nothing.

If you aren't clear on the meaning of bachelor, then this statement would require a citation of the definition in order to be convincing. This would constitute supporting evidence, and it would serve to demonstrate the meaning of "bachelor."

Thus, this does not go to refute the claim that an assertion without supporting evidence demonstrates nothing, as that is clearly the case here.