Warrigal comments on Pain and gain motivation - Less Wrong

45 Post author: Kaj_Sotala 07 April 2010 06:48PM

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Comment author: [deleted] 07 April 2010 10:09:43PM 3 points [-]

Okay, the two "examples" of akrasia that come to mind most easily are procrastination and addiction. If you're procrastinating, then you're failing to do something, and so you need some positive, "gain brain" motivation. If you're addicted, then you're failing to not do something; does this mean that you need some negative, "pain brain" motivation? If I'm addicted to heroin, should I try to visualize all the horrible things that will happen to me if I don't overcome my addiction?

Comment author: pjeby 07 April 2010 11:16:12PM 3 points [-]

If I'm addicted to heroin, should I try to visualize all the horrible things that will happen to me if I don't overcome my addiction?

That would be a negative motivation.

Now, I'm going to speculate a little, so I want to clearly mark the following as speculation:

I have had one person who told me they had significantly cut back their dose of a painkiller they were addicted to, by removing the negative feelings that prompted their use of it. This is just one example, though, and there are way too many confounding factors. (Inlcuding the part where they had only reported cutting down, not quitting entirely yet.)

All that being said, I would guess that the distinction between being addicted to something and simply enjoying it a lot, is the same as the distinction between negative and positive motivation. People might start smoking, drinking, or drugging for the purpose of receiving pleasure, but once they're an addict, the overwhelming motivation is to avoid withdrawal and/or the lousy life they might otherwise have to face.

I expect this is equally true for addictions like excessive internet usage, for example.

Anyway, I'm just putting the "speculation" disclaimer here because I don't treat people for drug, sex, alcohol, or gambling addictions. I've helped people quit smoking, sure, and I've cured my previously compulsive addiction to lesswrong, but that's about it. ;-)

Comment author: wedrifid 07 April 2010 11:02:09PM 0 points [-]

I wouldn't recommend pain to people who have learned to self-medicate with addictive behaviors. I would recommend enough 'gain brain' motivation to encourage whatever positive action is required to combat the addiction. (eg. Finding someone to tie you down and inject you with suitable chemicals till the worst of the chemical addiction is gone.)

Comment author: PlaidX 07 April 2010 10:37:03PM 0 points [-]

I don't think addiction IS a form of akrasia.

Comment author: [deleted] 07 April 2010 10:45:53PM 1 point [-]

Why, pray tell, not? Surely heroin addicts would rather not be heroin addicts, and yet they are.

Comment author: Nanani 09 April 2010 12:44:43AM 2 points [-]

Are you sure about that? Beware generalizing from a sample of one.

Heroin addiction is in most cases carefully cultivated by the addict, for a variety of reasons, and stopping is not really difficult.

I recommend Theodore Dalrymple's insightful book Romancing Opiates: Pharmacological Lies and the Addiction Bureaucracy for clarification as to why akrasia and heroin addiction are not related.

Comment author: [deleted] 09 April 2010 03:44:23AM 8 points [-]

I'm generalizing from a sample of zero, in fact.

Comment author: RobinZ 09 April 2010 04:23:31AM 6 points [-]

That's the wittiest expression for "I'm reporting my prior" that I've seen in the last five minutes! :D