Amanojack comments on Pain and gain motivation - Less Wrong

45 Post author: Kaj_Sotala 07 April 2010 06:48PM

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Comment author: pjeby 07 April 2010 10:47:30PM *  6 points [-]

Okay, a Status threat is a threat to your status, a Safety threat is a threat to your safety. I can sort of guess what an Affiliation threat is--something like "people like me don't do this, so I had better not".

Not that sophisticated, actually. Affiliation is a catch-all for being loved, liked, accepted, supported, understood, empathized with, etc. Bonding.

A Stimulation threat, I have no plausible guess for. "If I don't do this, I'm going to be bored"?

Yep. Stimulation isn't usually all that important, most of the time. I see Status and Affiliation threats involved in maybe 60-80% of cases, while Stimulation is more like 2 or 3%. But it does show up from time to time, and it makes for a nice acronym. ;-)

A rough chart of the (negative) emotions involved:

Status - anger, humiliation, hurt pride, indignation, embarassment

Affiliation - loneliness, rejection, unworthiness, inadequacy

Safety - fear, anxiety, uncertainty, stress

Stimulation - boredom, apathy, hopelessness

There are, of course, corresponding positive emotions for when you get each of the four values. (Like excitement and fun and joy, in the case of Stimulation.)

Anyway, whether positive or negative, these four kinds of things seem to essentially be the brain's terminal values - if you control a person's self-perceived levels of these things, you can pretty much imprint them however you like.

We spend our childhoods doing just that, actually -- learning associations between our built-in triggers, and either our environment, our actions, or other social constructs.

So for example, I learned over a good chunk of my childhood not to do almost anything exciting because my mother yelled at me until I matched her fear for my Safety, until I indeed loathed any sort of surprise or unexpectedness / unpredictability. I used to hate being around crowds and strangers because who knew what they might say or do?

(I only recently became aware of this link and removed it.... damn I've been missing out!)

Comment author: Amanojack 08 April 2010 01:00:31AM 2 points [-]

Safety - ... uncertainty ...

I think I've discovered the source of my Internet addiction. I hate the feeling of not knowing! Oddly, I used to pride myself on my ignorance of current events. It's just that the more I learn the more it feels like I need to know. Classic addiction pattern.

Comment author: pjeby 08 April 2010 01:14:32AM 3 points [-]

I think I've discovered the source of my Internet addiction.

Probably not. First off, that's entirely too logical. ;-) Second, the aspect of behavior you describe is more parsimoniously explained by simple dopamine-driven behavior modification.

The reason you're surfing the internet instead of some more interesting source of dopamine, however, might well be something to do with a SASS threat, but you won't know what, specifically, unless you investigate.

Information that comes from outside you and sounds logical is generally the least likely source of good information about why you're doing what you're doing.

Comment author: Amanojack 08 April 2010 01:32:33AM 1 point [-]

investigate

You mean RMI?

Comment author: pjeby 08 April 2010 01:45:11AM 2 points [-]

Yes.

Comment author: Amanojack 08 April 2010 12:10:20PM 0 points [-]

All right, I asked myself what it would be like if I hardly ever used the Internet. I got a feeling of "missing out." Perhaps that points to loneliness, which is ironic because my net use hampers my offline social life, but it could be case nonetheless.

Comment author: pjeby 08 April 2010 03:59:57PM 3 points [-]

Emotional-brain answers don't "point to" things. They just are what they are. Ask what, specifically, you're "missing out" on, as the "pointing to" bit is just a logical-brain speculation.

At the moment, the evidence still supports a most-parsimonious hypothesis of dopamine addiction as an avoidance strategy for getting away from something else... that you haven't actually asked yourself about. What is it that you want (or think you want) to be doing instead of being internet addicted? That's the thing you should be asking questions about.

90% of the time, our initial ideas about what problem we need to solve are overly-narrow, because the unconscious mind almost always hands the conscious mind a problem specification that doesn't involve questioning any of your basic assumptions. ;-)

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 08 April 2010 03:03:16AM 0 points [-]

I'm not sure where intermittent reinforcement fits with your theories, but I think part of the hook of surfing the internet is that you never know when you'll run into something really cool. The fact that you don't even know what sort of really cool you might find adds to the hook.

Comment author: pjeby 08 April 2010 03:20:29AM 2 points [-]

I'm not sure where intermittent reinforcement fits with your theories,

Also known as "dopamine-driven behavior modification", as I said above.

That being said, novelty addiction seems (at least in my experience) to be something that's only really satisfying/compelling when you don't have anything better to do, or you're trying to avoid something else. When I'm being positively motivated, I'll sometimes go for days without reading my usual blogs, webcomics, etc. and be surprised when I have a lot to catch up on.

That's why I'd always check for a negative motivation explanation long before I'd consider the novelty-seeking to be particularly important in and of itself.