Sniffnoy comments on Beauty quips, "I'd shut up and multiply!" - Less Wrong

6 Post author: neq1 07 May 2010 02:34PM

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Comment author: Morendil 13 May 2010 10:06:27AM *  2 points [-]

So, I'm still working on this in my plodding, newbie-at-probability-math fashion.

What I took away from my exchanges with AlephNeil is that I get the clearest picture if I think in terms of a joint probability distribution, and attempt to justify mathematically each step of my building the table, as well as the operations of conditioning and marginalizing.

In the original Sleeping Beauty problem, we have three variables: x is how the coin came up {heads, tails}, y is the day of the week {monday, tuesday}, and z is whether I am asked for my credence (i.e. woken) {wake, sleep}.

P(x,y,z)=P(x)P(y|x)P(z|x,y) and unlike in the "revival" case x and y aren't clearly independent. In fact the answer very much seems to hinge on what we take the probability of it being tuesday, given that the coin came up heads.

The relevant possible outcomes are: (H,M,W) (H,T,W) (T,M,W) (T,T,W) (H,M,S) (H,T,S) (T,M,S) (T,T,S) - eight in all.

Conditioning on z=W consists of deleting the part of the table that has z=S, summing up all the remaining values, and renormalizing by dividing every cell in cell in the table by the total.

The rules for filling the table are: the values must add up to 1; the "heads" and "tails" branches must receive equal probability mass from P(x); and P(z|x,y) must reflect the experimental rules. So we must have the following:

  • P(H,M,W) - see below
  • P(H,T,W)=0
  • P(T,M,W)=1/4
  • P(T,T,W)=1/4
  • P(H,M,S)=0
  • P(H,T,S) - see below
  • P(T,M,S)=0
  • P(T,T,S)=0

The ambiguity seems to arise in allocating probability mass to the outcomes: "the coin comes up heads; it is Monday; I get woken up", and "the coin comes up heads; it is Tuesday; I do no get woken up". That is, I'm not sure what the correct conditional distribution P(y|x) should be.

The 1/2 answer corresponds to allocating all of the available 1/2 probability mass to the first of these outcomes in the joint table, saying P(y=M|x=H)=1 and P(y=T|x=H)=0. Or verbally, "it's certain that I get woken up on Monday if the coin comes up heads, and after that the experiment is over". The "not woken up" half of the table receives no probability mass at all.

The 1/3 answer corresponds to distributing that probability mass among the two outcomes, saying P(y=M|x)=P(y=T|x)=1/2. Verbally: "however the coin comes up, it could be either Monday or Tuesday". Here 1/4 of the total probability mass is in the "not woken up" half of the table and gets deleted when we condition on being woken.

(ETA: Where does the amnesia appear in this formalization? It doesn't, but neither does it need to. Its only practical consequence is to outlaw conditioning on the day, so working out the distribution P(x|z) conforms to the amnesia.)

Comment author: Sniffnoy 13 May 2010 02:44:53PM 0 points [-]

Hm. Should "S" be representing "Beauty is asleep or the experiment is over"? Seeing as how the experiment ends after one day if heads comes up. But then, we can just modify the problem to say she's put back to sleep for the rest of Tuesday in the case of heads; that shouldn't change anything.

Comment author: Morendil 13 May 2010 03:33:14PM *  1 point [-]

It seems to me that if we make the experiment last three days instead of two, that ambiguity goes away: then it becomes clear that Beauty must assign non-zero probability mass to (H,T,S). (Or does it?)

However, that means I'd have to change my mind once again, and decide that the correct answer is in fact 1/3.

Here is a Google spreadsheet showing my reasoning. Any feedback welcome.

Comment author: Jack 14 May 2010 12:45:23PM 0 points [-]

Can you explain what the three day version means in English, I'm having a little trouble parsing the spreadsheet.

Comment author: Morendil 14 May 2010 12:54:12PM 0 points [-]

See here and its grandparent.

The three day version goes: "Beauty is explained the rules on Sunday and put to sleep, then a coin is flipped. If it comes up heads, Beauty is awakened on Monday and sleeps through Tuesday and Wednesday. If it comes up tails, Beauty is awakened on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. On all awakenings (with the previous day's memories erased by the sleeping drug) she is asked for her credence in Heads."

This differs from the original which says "the experiment ends on Monday is the coin comes up heads". But Beauty would have the same uncertainty if you decided, in the original version, to wake Beauty on Tuesday in the event of heads, rather than Monday.

BTW the Google spreadsheet has a chat area, if you'd like to discuss this live.