Jack comments on Do you have High-Functioning Asperger's Syndrome? - Less Wrong

19 [deleted] 10 May 2010 11:55PM

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Comment author: Jack 12 May 2010 02:21:34AM *  10 points [-]

Your usual club/bar crowd in a major city is probably above average still. You can still have interesting conversations there: probably not AI, physics, serious philosophy or population genetics but pop-psychology, gender, sex, music and film, sure as long as you don't over do it and get too serious.

In comparison, my girlfriend's mother (they are from the rural midwest) thought "Al Qaeda" was the name of the man we had put in charge in Iraq (Al as in Albert or Allen).

Edit: I remember there was an AMA on reddit which was just with some guy who had a lower than average IQ and everyone acted like they were meeting an alien.

Comment author: Vladimir_M 13 May 2010 06:44:51AM *  7 points [-]

Edit: I remember there was an AMA on reddit which was just with some guy who had a lower than average IQ and everyone acted like they were meeting an alien.

Taking the IQ score for a characteristic that says something precise about an individual, like height or weight, is a fallacy. The real utility of IQ is statistical. It correlates highly with a number of relevant measures of ability and success in life, but the connection is ultimately probabilistic. Someone who scored 85 on an IQ test is highly likely to perform worse on pretty much any intellectual task than someone who scored, say, 115. However, in a large population, there will be a significant number of exceptions -- both above-average IQ types who are otherwise dumb as a box of rocks and useless for any productive work, and below-average folks who come off as clever and competent.

This is by no means to say that IQ is irrelevant. In a population large enough for the law of large numbers to kick in, the relevant measures of intellectual success and competence will correlate with the IQ distributions with merciless regularity. But whatever it is exactly that IQ tests measure, it contains enough randomness and irrelevant components to make the correlations imperfect and allow for lots of individual exceptions.

Comment author: Alicorn 12 May 2010 02:57:07AM 4 points [-]

I remember there was an AMA on reddit which was just with some guy who had a lower than average IQ and everyone acted like they were meeting an alien.

I want to read this. Can you dig up the link?

Comment author: Kevin 12 May 2010 03:14:00AM 3 points [-]
Comment author: John_Maxwell_IV 12 May 2010 04:22:44AM *  9 points [-]

IMHO the guy is super articulate and rational for someone who's got an IQ of 85. See his user page for everything he writes:

http://www.reddit.com/user/Quickening

I think that health care is a great thing, but not a right. I see rights as something other people can't take away from you. You have a right to live, but another person has a right to not be forced to help you to live or ask to make money off of it. If most people want it a certain way, I don't have a problem with them changing it.

...

I prefer to deal with interesting people. I meet a lot of people who think they are interesting because they are smart but they don't really have much to offer to a conversation. I'd prefer a less smart person that has driven a motorcycle across the country than a smart person ho makes all A's and reads all the time.

...

I've thought about how big the universe is, but I can't really grasp it. Most people have problems with sizes they don't have to deal with. It's hard for me to really grasp the size of Jupiter. I know I can say it's X many Earths in size, but I still can't really picture it.

Comment author: [deleted] 17 April 2013 12:19:55PM *  2 points [-]

From the passage you quoted... He does use much shorter, simpler sentences than most things I read (besides instant messaging), but his spelling, punctuation and capitalization are correct, which is not something you'd usually see in (say) YouTube comments. Maybe he has a copy-editor or something?

Comment author: RichardKennaway 17 April 2013 01:39:53PM 0 points [-]

Maybe he has a copy-editor or something?

Maybe he learned to read and write. Of course, on the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog, or a smart person pretending to be dim, but I don't find this level of articulacy inconsistent with him being exactly what he says. I haven't read much of that thread yet, but I'm now curious to know his life history.

Comment author: John_Maxwell_IV 12 May 2010 04:37:24AM *  9 points [-]

In comparison, my girlfriend's mother (they are from the rural midwest) thought "Al Qaeda" was the name of the man we had put in charge in Iraq (Al as in Albert or Allen).

That's just a trivia question. It doesn't say much about her intelligence without additional information like the amount of news she has watched, etc.

I tried for a bit to think of something that would irrevocably demonstrate someone as stupid, but I couldn't think of anything. I think when it comes down to it, the kind of stupidity that matters is the kind that makes you slow at learning new things. So to figure out that someone was irrevocably stupid you'd have to see them work on learning something simple for a while without getting much of anywhere.

There is another important ability associated with intelligence: being able to apply existing knowledge creatively. This is easier to test--if someone "knows" how to program but can't write fizzbuzz, they fail. Or maybe if someone "knows" basic arithmetic but can't explain its misapplication in this story. But I think this creativity ability only arises in people who can learn things fast.

Comment author: Jack 12 May 2010 07:43:02AM 3 points [-]

That's just a trivia question. It doesn't say much about her intelligence without additional information like the amount of news she has watched, etc.

I think there is probably a high, multi-vector correlation between knowledge and intelligence such that it is evidence in favor of lower IQ. But yeah, I wasn't attempting to give comprehensive reasons.

I think when it comes down to it, the kind of stupidity that matters is the kind that makes you slow at learning new things.

Theres also the 'not recognizing the best solutions" thing.

Comment author: John_Maxwell_IV 12 May 2010 09:57:33AM *  0 points [-]

Where can I learn more about what "multi-vector correlation" means in this context?

Theres also the 'not recognizing the best solutions" thing.

I tend to think of that as a lack of rationality. (I assume we're talking about someone who, say, simply refuses to change their standard response to a situation once they've made a semi-public announcement of it. This could also be explained by saying they're rational, but with a complex utility function.)

Comment author: Jack 12 May 2010 10:23:59AM *  3 points [-]

Where can I learn more about what "multi-vector correlation" means in this context?

Er, sorry. I'm sure I've mangled whatever legitimate mathematical jargon that resembles. What I mean is that intelligent people tend to have more knowledge and knowledgeable people tend to be more intelligent. By "multi-vector" I just mean that this co-variability isn't due to one simple factor or explanation but that lots of factors are responsible for the correlation. Intelligent people learn more, those raised in environments with lots of knowledge to pick up are more likely to have had intelligent parents, etc.

I tend to think of that as a lack of rationality. (I assume we're talking about someone who, say, simply refuses to change their standard response to a situation once they've made a semi-public announcement of it. This could also be explained by saying they're rational, but with a complex utility function.)

What I mean is: say there is some task that needs to be completed an intelligent will immediately see one of the better ways of completing the task and will routinely improve on the methods of the less intelligent. The less intelligent won't even always recognize what makes the new solution better.

Comment author: [deleted] 17 April 2013 12:13:37PM 1 point [-]

Your usual club/bar crowd in a major city is probably above average still. You can still have interesting conversations there: probably not AI, physics, serious philosophy or population genetics but pop-psychology, gender, sex, music and film, sure as long as you don't over do it and get too serious.

I think these things might depend on what side of the Atlantic you're on: ISTR that Feynman was surprised when some European physicist asked him what he was working on while they were drinking in a bar, because Americans don't usually do that. (I've never been to America, so for all I know things may have changed since then.)