If it's suggested that women should be less picky-- for the sake of men, and no implication that it's for the sake of women-- and one of the reasons women are picky is regard for their own safety, but this is not considered relevant-- then it isn't unreasonable for a woman to conclude that her safety is considered unimportant.
I can't quite follow you on this chain. Even if women are asked to be less picky, that doesn't mean that she is being asked to change the safety-related elements of her preferences. That's a possible implication which understandably evokes a negative reaction, and deserves being pointed out. But it's just too big a leap to "conclude" that the speaker believes that women's safety is unimportant.
I will also note that komponisto's original problematic quote talked about women "granting" sexual favors less conservatively. "Grant" implies agency. It's not a reasonable assumption to conclude that komponisto wants women to engage in sexuality in ways that compromise their safety. That's just not the kind of belief a decent person would hold, so concluding that he might consider women's safety unimportant communicates that he is a bad person. Now he's been made to feel he's such a bad person that he can't even emotionally participate in this topic anymore.
Was there a whole host of problems with his original comment? Yes. Do those problems deserve to be pointed out, including the negative reactions they caused? Yes. But I find the insinuations about komponisto's beliefs and the supposed entailments of what he is saying (like the idea that women's determinations about their safety being considered unimportant) to be overboard, only tenuously connected to his actual words, and unduly shaming.
EDIT: The karma of this post has been fluctuating. Check out my follow-up for a better explanation of my views.
That's just not the kind of belief a decent person would hold, so concluding that he might consider women's safety unimportant communicates that he is a bad person. Now he's been made to feel he's such a bad person that he can't even emotionally participate in this topic anymore.
At least two people on the other side of the discussion have assured komponisto that they don't consider him a "bad person" here and here. Besides saying this upfront before each criticism, can you think of some other ways that we might minimize the real or perceived i...
Overview: This is a proposal for a LessWrong Pick Up Artist (PUA)-like sub-community; PUA without the PU (get it?)1. Members would focus on the deliberate practice of social artistry, but with non-mating goals. Origins and intent of the goal are discussed, possible topics for learning are listed, and suggestions for next steps are solicited.
Origins:
The PUA Community began decades ago with men that wanted to learn how to get better at seducing women. As I understand it, they simply began posting their (initially) awkward attempts at love online. Over the years, they appear to have amassed a fairly impressive set of practical knowledge and skills in this domain.
I admire and applaud this effort. However, my ability to meet women is not currently a limiting factor in my life satisfaction. In reading some of the PUA literature, I was struck how often different authors remarked on the unintended side benefits of their training: better relationships at work, better interviewing skills, more effective negotiations, more non-pickup social fun, better male friendships, more confidence, etc. These guys were able to make major strides in areas that I've struggled to improve at all in... without even bloody intending to! This struck me as an something worth taking very seriously!
I find it alarming that such a valuable resource would be monopolized in pursuit of orgasm; it's rather as if a planet were to burn up its hydrocarbons instead of using them to make useful polymers. PUA ought to be a special case of a more general skill set, and it's being wasted. I say that my goals are noble, and as such I should have the opportunity to sharpen my skills to at least the keenness of a PUA master!
Statement of Purpose:
The purpose of this post is to open discussion on how to construct a community of developing social artisans, modeled after the useful components2 of the PUA community. If there is sufficient mass, the next goals are probably sussing out learning methods and logistics.
The mission of the hypothetical community will probably need to be fleshed out more explicitly (and I don't want to be too prescriptive), but pretty much what I was thinking was expressed well by Scott Adams:
Word! [EDIT: We need not be bound by this exact list. For instance, there is no way I'm going to be doing any golfing.]
I've met people who were shockingly, seemingly preternaturally adept in social settings. Of course this is not magic. Like anything else, it can be reduced to a set of constituent steps and learned. We just need to figure out how.
Next steps:
I have a rather long list of ideas ready to go, but they made this post kind of awkward. Plus, Scott Adam's post says much of what I was trying to get at. Let's just start the conversation.
So, what do you think?
1 I have nothing whatsoever against the majority of the PUAers with whom I've had encounters, and the title is just meant to be funny. No offense!
2 The mention of PUA drags along several associations that I want to disavow (think anything obviously "Dark Arts"). I considered omitting the fact that much of the intellectual heritage of this idea is the PUAers to avoid these associations, but I couldn't think of another way to tie it together. This idea owes its genesis to the PUA community, but the product is not intended to be its exact replica. Undesirable elements need not be ported from the old system to the new.