SilasBarta comments on On Enjoying Disagreeable Company - Less Wrong

49 Post author: Alicorn 26 May 2010 01:47AM

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Comment author: JRMayne 27 May 2010 04:58:59AM *  14 points [-]

I'm not sure I want to like more people all that much.

I have a generally cheerful disposition, and I have no trouble with civility toward those I dislike. There have been people who clearly disliked me whom I thought well of nonetheless; I've met me, and I recognize this particular combination of attributes isn't to everyone's taste.

But I've never had a situation where I wanted to make an effort to like someone who I didn't like. I think the goals here are typically anti-productive, assuming reasonable socialization skills and some pre-existing friends.

It is useful to like people. For one thing, if you have to be around them, liking >them makes this far more pleasant. For another, well, they can often tell, and if >they know you to like them this will often be instrumentally useful to you.

Let's take a look at these advantages:

  1. More pleasant. Yes, true. Point well taken.

  2. Puppeteering. OK, maybe a bit too harsh, but "instrumentally useful," sounds like that. I certainly want people to do lots of things, but I don't usually trade in on personal relationships quite that way.

Disadvantages:

  1. Personal rot. There are qualities in people that it is unwise to overlook, because the cognitive dissonance is so strong. "He's fun, except for the light stealing," is not going to lead to healthy thinking. This is inevitably corrupting.

If you're admiring something that's interesting but maybe not admirable, you're changing yourself in some way that might not be good.

  1. Failure to change people a little tiny bit. Yeah, your view toward the other human is unlikely to change them a lot if they're adults, because people are bad at learning or attempting to learn new modes of socialization. (This is doubtless why Alicorn's posts on these topics are popular; the deliberate reinvention and aiming of self is both impressive and interesting. And quite rare.) But a little change might be brought about through social cues that recreational puppy-stomping is frowned on.

  2. * A lot of effort that might be spent better elsewhere.* Overall effort's not fixed, so you might gain extra effort points by doing this, but there's still got to be a net loss.

Premise rejection:

  1. People know more about themselves than you do. As far as experiences, yes, As far as who they are and what they are good at... maybe not.

Anyway, it's a very interesting post, much as I think it's a bad idea. I note that I was and remain a big fan of niceness in most circumstances and a big fan of the niceness post linked at the top of this one. I think this is dangerous step past that.

On a side note, I apologize for failing to honor the tone norm in this thread and addressing the post. For whatever reason, I found the post more interesting than the comment thread, which I gather was moved over from Gawker.

--JRM

Comment author: HughRistik 27 May 2010 05:41:34AM *  6 points [-]

I'll try to explain what I view as the advantages of liking people.

It's instrumentally useful to give people the perception that you like them: they are more likely to like you, and to want to cooperate with you. Probably the best way to give people the perception that you like them is to actually like them.

There are qualities in people that it is unwise to overlook, because the cognitive dissonance is so strong. "He's fun, except for the light stealing," is not going to lead to healthy thinking. This is inevitably corrupting.

Yes, I agree. As someone with high Agreeableness and Openness, I've been burned in the past for being too trusting of people. This tendency is why people with high Agreeableness need to learn certain skills (alluded to by SarahC, including a healthy amount of suspicion. Similarly, Disagreeable people may need to learn to be more trusting and open towards people. Otherwise, even though they might avoid getting burned, they might shortchange themselves on positive interactions and connections with people.

An emotionally Agreeable person applying cognitive cynicism, and an emotionally Disagreeable person applying cognitive openness, could have the same estimates of people's trustworthiness; they are just coming from different routes.

Anyway, it's a very interesting post, much as I think it's a bad idea. I note that I was and remain a big fan of niceness in most circumstances and a big fan of the niceness post linked at the top of this one. I think this is dangerous step past that.

Well, the best way to be nice is probably to genuinely like people. I agree with you that adopting such an attitude has risks; I just think that if you can mitigate those risks, an attitude of Agreeableness combined with some cognitive caution towards people and their motives, is a powerful combination in our society.

Comment author: cousin_it 27 May 2010 08:29:36PM *  5 points [-]

It's instrumentally useful to give people the perception that you like them

Hmm. I've found that it's most effective to give people the perception that you're having fun and not judging them. The best way to give a perception like that is to actually have fun and conceal any snap judgments you make. This tactic doesn't seem to have the downsides of liking the wrong people.