Douglas_Knight comments on Open Thread: June 2010 - Less Wrong

5 Post author: Morendil 01 June 2010 06:04PM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (651)

You are viewing a single comment's thread. Show more comments above.

Comment author: kodos96 02 June 2010 04:47:53AM *  11 points [-]

That's what I thought as well, until I read this post from "Fake Steve Jobs". Not the most reliable source, obviously, but he does seem to have a point:

But, see, arguments about national averages are a smokescreen. Sure, people kill themselves all the time. But the Foxconn people all work for the same company, in the same place, and they’re all doing it in the same way, and that way happens to be a gruesome, public way that makes a spectacle of their death. They’re not pill-takers or wrist-slitters or hangers. ... They’re jumpers. And jumpers, my friends, are a different breed. Ask any cop or shrink who deals with this stuff. Jumpers want to make a statement. Jumpers are trying to tell you something.

Now I'm not entirely sure of the details, but if it's true that all the suicides in the recent cluster consisted of jumping off the Foxconn factory roof, that does seem to be more significant than just 15 employees committing suicide in unrelated incidents. In fact, it seems like it might even be the case that there are a lot more suicides than the ones we've heard about, and the cluster of 15 are just those who've killed themselves via this particular, highly visible, method (I'm just speculating here).

I'm not sure what to make of this - without knowing more of the details its probably impossible to say what's going on. But the basic point seems sound: that the argument about being below national average suicide rates doesn't really hold up if there's something specific about a particular group of incidents that makes them non-independent. As an example, if the members of some cult commit suicide en masse, you can't look at the region the event happened in and say "well the overall suicide rate for the region is still below the national average, so there's nothing to see here"

Comment author: Douglas_Knight 02 June 2010 05:04:28AM 10 points [-]

Suicide and methods of suicide are contagious, FWIW.

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 02 June 2010 07:40:17AM 9 points [-]

keyword = "werther effect"

Comment author: CannibalSmith 02 June 2010 01:13:19PM 7 points [-]
Comment author: wedrifid 02 June 2010 05:33:48AM 3 points [-]

I was surprised when I read a statistical analysis on national death rates. Whenever there was a suicide by a particular method published in newspapers or on television, deaths of that form spiked in the following weeks. This is despite the copycat deaths often being called 'accidents' (examples included crashed cars and aeroplanes). Scary stuff (or very impressive statistics-fu).

Comment author: JoshuaZ 02 June 2010 05:44:34AM 1 point [-]

Yes, this is connected to the existence of suicide epidemics. The most famous example is the ongoing suicide epidemic over the last fifty years in Micronesia, where both the causes and methods of suicide have been the same (hanging). See for example this discussion.