Jack comments on Rationality quotes: June 2010 - Less Wrong

4 Post author: Morendil 01 June 2010 06:07PM

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Comment author: CronoDAS 08 June 2010 05:29:37AM *  1 point [-]

Some more context, from the link:

I consider the claim that 'ought' cannot be derived from 'is' to be a very remarkable claim. It suggests that there something . . . 'oughtness' . . . that is totally distinct and separate from things that exist in the real world . . . 'isness' . . . yet is supposed to have relevance in the real world. It is referred to as a part of the real-world explanations for the movement of real matter through space-time. Yet, we are told, this 'ought' or 'should' that we are making a reference to and that has these owers is something distinct and separate from anything in the world of 'is'.

[...]

My position is that 'ought' is relevant in the real world because 'ought' is a species of 'is', and there is no mystery as to how 'is' can be relevant in the real world.

So, when I put you cannot derive 'ought' from 'is' up against 'ought' can interact with 'is' because it is a species of 'is', and I realize that one of them must be mistaken, it seems far more likely that we will find the error in the first proposition rather than the second. I would be far less surprised by a discovery that 'ought' is relevant to 'is' because 'ought' is a subset of 'is' than that there is a realm of 'ought' separate and distinct from 'is' but still relevant in the world of 'is'.

Comment author: Jack 08 June 2010 05:56:42AM 3 points [-]

This seems... confused. The is-ought distinction is the distinction between preference and fact.

Comment author: CronoDAS 08 June 2010 03:30:43PM *  2 points [-]

"Preferences" are also facts about minds.

Comment author: Vladimir_Nesov 08 June 2010 03:36:48PM *  3 points [-]

"Preferences" are also facts about minds.

Not directly, there is no fixed "preference mapping" from minds to preferences that works in general. We can only hope for one that works for humans, constructed for searching preference of humans, because it won't need to work for any almost-humans or not-humans-at-all. I look at a mind and see that its preference is X, you look at the same mind and say it's Y. There is no factual disagreement, the sense of "preference" was different; and if it was the same, the purpose was lost.

Comment author: Simulation_Brain 12 June 2010 06:37:25AM 0 points [-]

Well, yes; it's not straightforward to go from brains to preferences. But for any particular definition of preference, a given brain's "preference" is just a fact about that brain. If this is true, it's important to understanding morality/ethics/volition.

Comment author: orthonormal 22 June 2010 05:44:38AM 2 points [-]

Hello! You seem to know your way around already, but it doesn't hurt to introduce yourself on the Welcome page...