SilasBarta comments on Less Wrong Book Club and Study Group - Less Wrong

34 Post author: Morendil 09 June 2010 05:00PM

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Comment author: Morendil 09 June 2010 07:26:46PM 4 points [-]

It's like reading a novel in a barely known foreign tongue, translating with a dictionary, and juggling the syntax without feeling the flow of the language.

Hm. This is not quite on-topic, but I learned English that way, lo those many years ago. My dad is an avid science-fiction fan and his collection resided in the loo. As a kid I loved sci-fi, I'd gotten hooked after reading Star Beast (translated, natch). And everytime I went for a twinkle there was this treasure trove, mocking me because I couldn't understand a word of it.

So one day (must have been 11ish) I picked up an Asimov, a dictionary and a French translation. (Why? The Loo Library was sorted by author; I started with the A's.) I struggled through that first book, I have no idea how I didn't just give up, but I made it through. The next one came easier, I didn't rely on a translation. After a while I could pretty much do without the dictionary, and started building my vocabulary from unknown words made clear by contextual clues. By the time I started on Heinlein I was getting top grades in English at school, a nice added bonus.

I'd agree that my real fluency only came later, after I also got some practice writing. But I disagree that tackling a difficult but intrinsically rewarding work isn't a good way to enter a previously unknown domain of knowledge.

Further to that, and getting back on topic, there are places in Jaynes where I can tell that I'm missing some pieces of background knowledge (e.g. familiarity with binomial coefficient manipulations) that others are likely to have, that don't really detract from my understanding what's going on but do make it harder for me to reproduce the derivations, but that having others to help me would add some "icing on the cake" to my appreciation of the math.

Comment author: SilasBarta 09 June 2010 08:11:51PM 1 point [-]

This is not quite on-topic, but I learned English that way, lo those many years ago.

Wow, I was planning to ask if English wasn't your native language, since you said you lived in Paris but speak English like a native speaker ... guess that one's resolved! So French is your native language then?

Comment author: Morendil 10 June 2010 09:08:30AM 0 points [-]

Yep.

I tried, many years later, to do the same for German. Süskind's Die Taube was my first attempt, followed by Remarque's Der Funke Leben, I still have a few on my bookshelves. It didn't really work out - I can usually understand the gist of a text or conversation in German on a familiar topic, but I didn't have the motivation or the opportunities to stay invested in German as I was invested in English, and never achieved anywhere near the same fluency. There was also a more recent and short-lived attempt to start learning Icelandic. On the whole I'd rate my language-learning ability as unremarkable, but I have lots of experience with English.