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Vladimir_Nesov comments on What if AI doesn't quite go FOOM? - Less Wrong
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Comments (186)
Please don't derail a civilized course of discussion, this makes clear communication more expensive in effort. This particular point was about a convention for using a word, and not about that other point you started talking sarcastically about here.
Also, speculating on the consequences of a conclusion (like the implication from it being correct to not release the UFAI, to you therefore having to destroy everything that stands in the way of preventing that event, an implication with which I more or less agree, if you don't forget to take into account the moral value of said murders) is not helpful in the course of arguing about which conclusion is the correct one.
I engaged with your point and even accepted it.
I reject your labeling attempt. My point is a fundamental disagreement with an important claim you are making and in no way sarcastic. Your comments here are attempting to redirect emphasis away from the point by re framing my disagreement negatively while completely ignoring my engagement with and acceptance of your point.
I also do not understand the "Let's keep it simple" rhetoric. My misuse of the 'FAI' algorithm was oversimplifying for the purposes of brevity and I was willing to accept your more rigorous usage even though it requires more complexity.
I have previously discussed the benefits of the 'kill test' in considering moral choices when things really matter. This is one of the reasons Eliezer's fan-fiction is so valuable. In particular I am influenced by Three Worlds Collide and The Sword of Good. I find that it is only that sort of stark consideration that can overcome certain biases that arise from moral squeamishness that is not evolved to handle big decisions. The "Ugh" reaction to things that "violate people's rights" and to coercement bias us towards justifying courses of action so we don't have to consider being 'bad'. I may write a top level post on the subject (but there are dozens above it on my list).
This conversation is not one that I will enjoy continuing. I do not believe I am likely to make you update and nor do I expect to elicit new arguments that have not been considered. If something new comes along or if a top level post is created to consider the issues then I would be interested to read them and would quite probably re-engage.
Okay, misunderstanding on both sides. From what I understood, there is no point in working on reaching agreement on this particular point of meta and rhetoric. (More substantial reply to the point we argue and attempt to reframe it for clarity are in the other two comments, which I assume you didn't notice at the time of writing this reply.)
Could you restate that (together with what you see as the disagreement, and the way "kill test" applies to this argument)? From what I remember, it's a reference to intuitive conclusion: you resolve the moral disagreement on the side of what you actually believe to be right. It's not a universally valid path to figuring out what's actually right, intuitions are sometimes wrong (although it might be the only thing to go on when you need to actually make that decision, but it's still decision-making under uncertainty, a process generally unrelated to truth-seeking).
Ok. And yes, I hadn't seen the other comments (either not yet written or hidden among the other subjects in my inbox).