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MichaelBishop comments on A Rational Education - Less Wrong
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For many people, their gender is an incredibly important aspect of their identity. One can think of a given subculture as having an ideal performance of masculinity. Men and women both respect that ideal. Certain occupations have been traditionally seen as very good ways of achieving that ideal. If women enter into such an occupation, the occupation is no longer seen as validating mens' manly virtues.
I oppose sex-discrimination in hiring, but there is no denying that this is a very serious loss for some men. Eventually, norms and ideals evolve in a way which allows men to continue to have their masculinity validated, and/or de-emphasizes gender as a component of one's identity, but this is a slow process. Moreover, with any change in values, there will always be winners and losers.
I think that's part of what's going on, but (if it matters), do you think people just happen to have gender performance as a major part of their identity, or are they trained into it?
Both, I'd guess. While there is a lot of socialization around gender performance, there also seem to be biological factors the predispose people towards gender performance. To the extent that biological factors influence gender expression, I'm not even sure it is correct to say that gender is "socially constructed," at least not entirely.
For one example, look at the experience of some trans people as experiencing a strong gender identity as long as they remember (just one at odds with their socially assigned gender). I doubt that all of those feelings can be explained by social factors.
It seems to be common for boys to feel that they have to earn the right to consider themselves men, but I don't know how universal it is.
On a related note some psychological theorists suggest that not having a ritual process (with a significant element of 'trial by ordeal') to mark the transition from boyhood to manhood fundamentally impairs the psychological maturity of many males in western civilisation. Such ceremonies are nearly ubiquitous across tribal cultures.
I've heard it. However, how common are such ceremonies in non-tribal cultures?
Alternate hypothesis: having responsibility delayed for years beyond what's normal causes lack of psychological maturity. Or, maybe there isn't less maturity, maybe there's just more complaining about the lack of it.
Also, I was hoping to hear from from some of the men here about whether they personally feel this need to be definitively accepted as men.
I don't think we should push too hard on the dichotomy of boy vs. man. I would emphasize that there is individual variation in how well men they can perform/achieve masculinity in their sub-culture. Women face the issue as well.