Vladimir_Nesov comments on Cryonics Wants To Be Big - Less Wrong

28 Post author: lsparrish 05 July 2010 07:50AM

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Comment author: wedrifid 08 July 2010 03:59:04PM *  4 points [-]

I think that the pro cryonics people in this mini-debate have failed miserably -- several people have posted "demands for particular proof" but it is not having any effect on SamAdams, who is clearly an intelligent person.

I suggest that the 'pro cryonics people' have cause to object to your presumption. You have defined their success and failure in terms of their ability to make SamAdams concede a point. Why on earth would people want to accept either that challenge or that judgement?

I haven't taken a pro-cryonics stance in this mini-debate but I suspect you refer to me too, given that I brought up "demands for particular proof". For my part convincing SamAdams to preserve himself with cryonics is exactly the opposite of what I desire. I want him to go away. Not go and preserve himself so we're stuck with him forever.

Comment author: Vladimir_Nesov 08 July 2010 04:53:01PM *  3 points [-]

I want him to go away. Not go and preserve himself so we're stuck with him forever.

While I appreciate this display of cruelty (it's high-status and fun), I believe it is a moral error to exert control (in any nontrivial amount) towards murdering a person.

Comment author: wedrifid 09 July 2010 02:13:22AM 1 point [-]

Excuse me? You make both a moral and, more importantly, an epistemic error in your accusation. I take offence.

I am in no way morally obliged to persuade coerce others into cryogenic preservation. Even assuming that moral presumption it would still be a simple factual error to apply the label 'murder' to the action 'not expending considerable effort to persuade someone to freeze their head'. If you sincerely do not understand that distinction, go and read any serious analysis of a debate on abortion or euthanasia from last century. Then further understand the moral and semantic difference between murder and inaction by watching some batman begins: "I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you."

It is also high status and fun, in fact it is the very core of politics and debate, and misrepresent it as the nearest possible 'Bad Thing'. You may well have some moral and philosophical positions you wish to express, along the lines of encouraging over-responsible egalitarianism. But an accusation here of a 'nontrivial amount' of action towards 'murdering a person' is both a factual error and socially hostile. It is not something I take lightly.

Comment author: JoshuaZ 09 July 2010 01:48:40PM 0 points [-]

Would you react differently if one were directly discussing committing suicide? Would saying that you don't want Sam around indefinitely so don't mind if you don't convince him? Would that seem morally distinct? If so, why?