satt comments on Some Thoughts Are Too Dangerous For Brains to Think - Less Wrong

15 Post author: WrongBot 13 July 2010 04:44AM

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Comment author: MichaelVassar 15 July 2010 05:17:33PM 24 points [-]

I flat-out disagree that power corrupts as the phrase is usually understood, but that's a topic worthy of rational discussion (just not now with me).

The claim that there has never been a truly benevolent dictator though, that's simply a religious assertion, a key point of faith in the American democratic religion and no more worthy of discussion than whether the Earth is old, at least for usual meanings of the word 'benevolent' and for meanings of 'dictator' which avoid the no true Scotsman fallacy. There have been benevolent democratically elected leaders in the usual sense too. How confident do you think you should be that the latter are more common than the former though? Why?

I'm seriously inclined to down-vote the whole comment community on this one except for Peter, though I won't, for their failure to challenge such an overt assertion of such an absurd claim. How many people would have jumped in against the claim that without belief in god there can be no morality or public order, that the moral behavior of secular people is just a habit or hold-over from Christian times, and that thus that all secular societies are doomed? To me it's about equally credible.

BTW, just from the 20th century there are people from Ataturk to FDR to Lee Kuan Yew to Deng Chou Ping. More generally, more or less The Entire History of the World especially East Asia are counter-examples.

Comment author: satt 16 July 2010 03:14:52AM 3 points [-]

I'm seriously inclined to down-vote the whole comment community on this one except for Peter, though I won't, for their failure to challenge such an overt assertion of such an absurd claim.

I didn't challenge it because I didn't find it absurd. I've asked myself in the past whether I could think of heads of state whose orders & actions were untarnished enough that I could go ahead and call them "benevolent" without caveats, and I drew a blank.

I'd guess my definition of a benevolent leader is less inclusive than yours; judging by your child comment it seems as if you're interpreting "benevolent dictator" as meaning simply "dictators who wanted good results and got them". To me "benevolent" connotes not only good motives & good policies/behaviour but also a lack of very bad policies/behaviour. Other posters in this discussion might've interpreted it like I did.

Comment author: MichaelVassar 16 July 2010 08:05:37AM 3 points [-]

Possibly. OTOH, the poster seems to have been convinced. I draw a blank on people, dictators or not, who don't engage in very bad policies/behavior on whatever scale they are able to act on. No points for inaction in my book.