MichaelVassar comments on Some Thoughts Are Too Dangerous For Brains to Think - Less Wrong

15 Post author: WrongBot 13 July 2010 04:44AM

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Comment author: MichaelVassar 15 July 2010 05:17:33PM 24 points [-]

I flat-out disagree that power corrupts as the phrase is usually understood, but that's a topic worthy of rational discussion (just not now with me).

The claim that there has never been a truly benevolent dictator though, that's simply a religious assertion, a key point of faith in the American democratic religion and no more worthy of discussion than whether the Earth is old, at least for usual meanings of the word 'benevolent' and for meanings of 'dictator' which avoid the no true Scotsman fallacy. There have been benevolent democratically elected leaders in the usual sense too. How confident do you think you should be that the latter are more common than the former though? Why?

I'm seriously inclined to down-vote the whole comment community on this one except for Peter, though I won't, for their failure to challenge such an overt assertion of such an absurd claim. How many people would have jumped in against the claim that without belief in god there can be no morality or public order, that the moral behavior of secular people is just a habit or hold-over from Christian times, and that thus that all secular societies are doomed? To me it's about equally credible.

BTW, just from the 20th century there are people from Ataturk to FDR to Lee Kuan Yew to Deng Chou Ping. More generally, more or less The Entire History of the World especially East Asia are counter-examples.

Comment author: WrongBot 15 July 2010 06:22:25PM 3 points [-]

While I'd disagree with your description of FDR as a dictator, you're quite right about Ataturk, and your other examples expose my woefully insufficient knowledge of non-Western history. My belief has been updated, and the post will be as well, in a moment.

Thanks.

Comment author: MichaelVassar 16 July 2010 08:24:11AM *  4 points [-]

Thank you! I'm so happy to have a community where things like this happen. Are you in agreement with my description of Lincoln as a dictator below? He's less benevolent than FDR but I'd still call him benevolent and he's a more clear dictator.

Comment author: WrongBot 16 July 2010 05:14:49PM 1 point [-]

Lincoln's a little more borderline, but so far as I'm aware, he didn't do anything to mess with the 1864 elections; I think most people would think that that keeps him on the non-dictator end of the spectrum

Of course, the validity of that election was based on a document that he was actively violating at the time, so there definitely seems to be room for debate.

Comment author: MichaelVassar 17 July 2010 01:30:50AM 4 points [-]

In addition, there's the fact that most of the Southern States couldn't vote at the time. It was basically unthinkable that he could have lost the elections. Democratic and dictatorial aren't natural types, but I'd say Lincoln is at least as far in the dictatorial direction as Putin, Nazarbayev, or almost any other basically sane ex-Soviet leader.