prase comments on Some Thoughts Are Too Dangerous For Brains to Think - Less Wrong

15 Post author: WrongBot 13 July 2010 04:44AM

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Comment author: MichaelVassar 15 July 2010 09:04:33PM 17 points [-]

I simply deny the assertion that dictators who wanted good results and got them were rare exceptions. Citation needed.

Admittedly, dictators have frequently presided over atrocities, unlike democratic rulers who have never presided over atrocities such as slavery, genocide, or more recently, say the Iraq war, Vietnam, or in an ongoing sense, the drug war or factory farming.

Human life is bloody. Power pushes the perceived responsibility for that brute fact onto the powerful. People are often scum, but avoiding power doesn't actually remove their responsibility. Practically every American can save lives for amounts of money which are fairly minor to them. What are the relevant differences between them and French aristocrats who could have done the same? I see one difference. The French aristocrats lived in a Malthusian world where tehy couldn't really have impacted total global suffering with the local efforts available?

How is G.W. Bush more corrupt than the people who elected him. He seems to care more for the third world poor than they do, and not obviously less for rule of law or the welfare of the US.

Playing fast and loose with geopolitical realities, (Iraq is only slightly about oil, for instance) I'd like to conclude with the observation that even when you yourself, as a middle class American, don't get your hands bloody as cheap oil etc corrupt you, it is possible that you are saved from bloody hands by an elected representative who you hired to do the job.

Comment author: prase 16 July 2010 09:07:14AM 9 points [-]

I simply deny the assertion that dictators who wanted good results and got them were rare exceptions. Citation needed.

The standards of evaluation of goodness should be specified in greater detail first. Else it is quite difficult to tell whether e.g. Atatürk was really benevolent or not, even if we agree on goodness of his individual actions. Some of the questions

  • are the points scored by getting desired good results cancelled by the atrocities, and to what extent?
  • could a non-dictatorial regime do better (given the conditions in the specific country and historical period), and if no, can the dictator bear full responsibility for his deeds?
  • what amount of goodness makes a dictator benevolent?

Unless we first specify the criteria, the risk of widespread rationalisation in this discussion is high.

Comment author: Blueberry 16 July 2010 05:22:53PM 2 points [-]

Upvoted for the umlaut!

Comment author: prase 16 July 2010 06:19:37PM *  5 points [-]

That was perhaps the cheapest upvote I ever got. Thanks. (Unfortunately Ceauşescu was anything but benevolent, else he would be mentioned and I could gather additional upvotes for the comma.)