daedalus2u comments on Fight Zero-Sum Bias - Less Wrong

25 Post author: multifoliaterose 18 July 2010 05:57AM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (153)

You are viewing a single comment's thread. Show more comments above.

Comment author: Nic_Smith 19 July 2010 12:06:48AM 8 points [-]

If a system is not zero-sum, then supplies of it are not limited and so it is of no value in trading for things that are limited.

This is not correct. That a situation is non-zero-sum does not mean that scarcity no longer exists. Nor does it mean that infinite quantities of something are available costlessly.

As an example, suppose we can each make a single pie (something we like) working alone, and can make three pies, split evenly, working together with the same time and effort. Deciding to cooperate to bake the pies is a non-zero-sum game, as joint cooperation give each "player" a half a pie they wouldn't otherwise have with no loss to the other.

On the other hand, deciding how to split three pies that have already been baked is a zero-sum game.

In neither case do we have infinite pies.

It is also not the case that the existence of a non-scarce resource makes scarce resources valueless. In most places on Earth, air is not a scarce resource*. I can go outside right now and use as much as I want. However, air cannot be traded for health care, food, living space, Internet access, or education. It cannot be the case that "conservatives" (Who exactly do you mean? And what exactly are the arguments against "free" things that they make?) are threatened by non-scarce resources.

*There are exceptions, I know.

Comment author: daedalus2u 19 July 2010 01:18:11AM 0 points [-]

You don't have infinite pies, but if you can only consume one pie, a pie and a half might as well be infinite. If everyone has a pie and a half and no one can consume more than one pie, then there is zero value attached to the extra half pie that everyone has. There is even negative value attached to it because the excess pie needs to be disposed of or it will attract vermin and become moldy.

If you can thwart the pie-making abilities of others, such that they can only make half a pie, then your pie and a half is worth more. Thwarting the positive sum efforts of others is part-and-parcel to success with a zero-sum mindset.

If you make infinite pies and give them away for free, then pie-making skills do become valueless.

This is classic monopoly activity. If you have a monopoly, you can extract a disproportionate share of the value added from that monopoly and use that monopoly power to expand into other areas by giving away products,, driving competitors out of business and then charging for what had been given away for free.

To use another example, suppose you have a monopoly in an operating system. You can use revenues from that monopoly to subsidize developing and giving away a web browser. Because of the barriers to entry for web browsers, no one can compete with you with a stand alone browser unless they have revenues from some other source. If no competitors develop a browser (from which they can derive no income), then you have another monopoly and can begin to charge a monopoly premium for your web browser.

If there are a multitude of browsers, some of which are given away, then there is no value associated with a proprietary browser and so there is no monopoly.

The browser market is approximately zero-sum (over the short term). There are a finite number of computers needing a browser, once that need is satisfied there is no additional need. A zero-sum mindset with a monopoly then causes obsolescence so more browsers are needed. A positive-sum mindset makes something new so now there is a browser and something that does something else, a wowser, then a flowser, a smowser, a growser and all manner of other -owsers.

Comment author: Cyan 19 July 2010 01:27:32AM 0 points [-]

I really want a smowser.