JoshuaZ comments on The Threat of Cryonics - Less Wrong

36 Post author: lsparrish 03 August 2010 07:57PM

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Comment author: JoshuaZ 03 August 2010 11:13:14PM *  7 points [-]

Some aspects of what you call the HDM don't seem to be universal. Note for example that some cultures have deliberately left bodies out on high towers to be consumed by scavengers. The Pirahã dig a hole, toss the body in, and have little or no ceremony. So the idea of having the corpses treated respectfully doesn't really exist in some cultures.

The HDM does not attempt to establish irreversibility of death beyond a shadow of a doubt, it assumes it based on loss of vital signs and lack of immediate revival. Originally the breath was used, then heartbeat; now the brainwave is considered an acceptable signal.

Do you have a citation for the claim that breathing in general pre-dated heartbeat as an indication of life? This seems intuitively correct but I've never seen a source saying that outright in anything I've read about historical medical ethics.

Comment author: lsparrish 04 August 2010 01:04:45AM *  6 points [-]

Do you have a citation for the claim that breathing in general pre-dated heartbeat as an indication of life?

I actually did make that up based on my intuition on the matter. However I was able to find some support via google. Here is a book that claims that cold body and cessation of breath are predate cardiac criteria: Trauma: Critical Care By William C. Wilson, Christopher M. Grande, David B. Hoyt, pp. 1218

I would say that while social norms regarding what is unacceptable treatment of a corpse vary, there seems to be a prevailing theme of cultures adopting strong norms regarding such treatment. Sky burial is just one such norm. I see no reason cryonics (including neuro) could not be another.

It is interesting that the Wikipedia article claims that the Pirahã do not have a social hierarchy. Perhaps this supports my position that treatment of corpses is primarily status-related (as opposed to a method of avoiding inflicting trauma on the living).