TobyBartels comments on Bloggingheads: Robert Wright and Eliezer Yudkowsky - Less Wrong

6 Post author: Liron 07 August 2010 06:09AM

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Comment author: timtyler 07 August 2010 09:56:04AM *  3 points [-]

I think it is quite acceptable to describe technological evolution as "purposeful" - in the same way as any other natural system is purposeful.

‘Teleology is like a mistress to a biologist: he cannot live without her but he’s unwilling to be seen with her in public.’ Today the mistress has become a lawfully wedded wife. Biologists no longer feel obligated to apologize for their use of teleological language; they flaunt it. The only concession which they make to its disreputable past is to rename it ‘teleonomy’. - D. Hull.

So, I am sympathetic to Robert Wright. Evolution is a giant optimisation process, which acts to dissipate low-entropy states - and cultural evolution is evolution with a different bunch of self-reproducing agents.

Whether all the parts cooperate with each other or not makes no real difference to the argument. A goal-directed system doesn't need all of its sub-components to cooperate with each other. Cooperation adds up - while conflict cancels out. A bit of cooperation is more than enough - and as the internet shows, the planet has enough cooperation to construct large-scale adaptations.

Comment author: TobyBartels 07 August 2010 05:44:48PM 5 points [-]

"‘Teleology is like a mistress to a biologist: he cannot live without her but he’s unwilling to be seen with her in public.’ Today the mistress has become a lawfully wedded wife. Biologists no longer feel obligated to apologize for their use of teleological language; they flaunt it. The only concession which they make to its disreputable past is to rename it ‘teleonomy’."

So when unmarried, biology and teleogy happened to have the same last name. But after the marriage, teleology changed her surname to be different? No wonder ordinary people don't understand science!