steven0461 comments on Closet survey #1 - Less Wrong

53 [deleted] 14 March 2009 07:51AM

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Comment author: steven0461 25 March 2009 08:19:16PM * 14 points [-]

This suggests the following argument: if it's wrong to cut off a baby's limb, surely (the possibility of negative quality of life aside) it's wrong to give the baby a permanent affliction that prevents it from ever thinking, having fun, etc? That's exactly the kind of affliction that death is.

I think many philosophical questions would be clearer, or at least more interesting, if we reconceptualized death as "Persistent Mineral Syndrome".

Comment author: dclayh 25 March 2009 10:11:09PM 10 points [-]

No, because the baby (by assumption) has no moral weight. The entity with moral weight is the adult which that baby will become. Preventing that adult from existing at all is not immoral (if it were, we'd essentially have to accept the repugnant conclusion), whereas causing harm to that adult, by harming the baby nonfatally, is.

Comment author: steven0461 26 March 2009 05:00:46PM 2 points [-]

Well, on this view the baby does grow into an adult, it's just that the adult is a death patient (and, apparently, discriminated against for this reason).

Too pseudo-clever?

Comment author: Strange7 comment score below threshold [+] (9 children)

Comment author: JGWeissman 14 April 2010 04:58:19PM 5 points [-]

You don't know it is discrimination until an actual member of the supposedly-disadvantaged group complains (barring other forms of evidence). But that does not mean it isn't disrimination. The map is not the territory.

Comment author: wedrifid 14 April 2010 02:08:13PM * 4 points [-]

... Which is why whenever I want to bully disadvantaged groups I make sure they cannot speak.

(That is to say, "Don't be daft!")

Comment author: AdeleneDawner 14 April 2010 02:17:01PM 2 points [-]

Thanks, Wedrifid. The other downvote is mine; there's so much wrong with the original statement that I was having trouble even figuring out where to start in replying to it.

Comment author: Strange7 14 April 2010 02:42:09PM 1 point [-]

That's censorship, not discrimination. Different problem needs a different solution. Once the information's made available, and complaints are possible, only then can antidiscrimination measures be implemented with any chance of success.

Have you ever known anyone to go out of their way to deny a dead person the opportunity to speak? If someone sat up near the conclusion of their own funeral and disputed the previous speaker's main points, I doubt they'd be shouted down.

Comment author: wedrifid 14 April 2010 04:25:31PM 4 points [-]

It ain't discrimination until an actual member of the supposedly-disadvantaged group complains.

That's censorship, not discrimination.

If I censor adequately then, by your definition, it is not possible for me to discriminate. I think that is a silly definition of 'discriminate'.

Comment author: Strange7 14 April 2010 04:43:48PM 0 points [-]

Possibly so. Silly, however, is not the same as wrong.

I am arguing that in such an environment of overwhelming censorship, it makes no sense to attempt to deal with the discrimination until the censorship itself has been cut away to the point that specific claims of descrimination - that is, complaints - are available. Censorship suppresses social problems in the same sense that morphine suppresses pain.

Arguing that some group should receive a material benefit which no member of that group has actually requested, and citing discrimination as the cause, is just some political game.

Comment author: wedrifid 14 April 2010 05:07:23PM 0 points [-]

Possibly so. Silly, however, is not the same as wrong.

Please consider 'wrong, stupid, absurd, unhelpful and generally BAD' to be substituted for the word 'silly' in the grandparent.

Comment author: AdeleneDawner 14 April 2010 03:05:45PM 2 points [-]

You gave an unqualified heuristic that applies to lots of situations, most of which it is inaccurate - and very dangerous - in. That's poor form at a bare minimum.

Comment author: Strange7 14 April 2010 04:16:54PM 0 points [-]

Not arguing with the downvotes, just trying to clarify what I meant.

Comment author: Vladimir_Nesov 25 March 2009 09:20:39PM * 1 point [-]

This isn't an argument for death being the worst of the possible outcomes. For example, you may be turned into a serial killer zombie, which is arguably worse than being dead.

Comment author: Vladimir_Nesov 22 October 2010 07:50:40PM 12 points [-]

There should be an option to downvote your own comments.

Comment author: cousin_it 24 November 2010 09:44:25AM 10 points [-]

To achieve the same effect with current technology, upvote everyone else.

Comment author: Normal_Anomaly 06 January 2012 12:27:07AM 1 point [-]

Do you mean that you no longer believe that being a serial killer zombie is arguably worse than being dead? I believe that.

Comment author: wedrifid 06 January 2012 06:14:30AM 2 points [-]

Do you mean that you no longer believe that being a serial killer zombie is arguably worse than being dead? I believe that.

Who do I get to kill as said zombie?

Comment author: NihilCredo 22 October 2010 07:42:48PM 8 points [-]

Being turned into a serial killer zombie actually sounds pretty awesome, assuming an appropriate soundtrack.

Comment author: steven0461 25 March 2009 09:29:24PM * 1 point [-]

This isn't an argument for death being the worst of the possible outcomes.

I didn't present it as one. I agree death isn't the worst of the possible outcomes.

steven0461 comments on Closet survey #1 - Less Wrong

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