Jordan comments on Transparency and Accountability - Less Wrong

16 Post author: multifoliaterose 21 August 2010 01:01PM

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Comment author: wedrifid 21 August 2010 09:56:07PM *  24 points [-]

this comment has done more to persuade me to stop being a monthly donor to SIAI than anything else I've read or seen.

It is certainly Eliezer's responses and not multi's challenges which are the powerful influence here. Multi has effectively given Eliezer a platform from which to advertise the merits of SIAI as well as demonstrate that contrary to suspicions Eliezer is, in fact, able to handle situations in accordance to his own high standards of rationality despite the influences of his ego. This is not what I've seen recently. He has focussed on retaliation against multi at whatever weak points he can find and largely neglected to do what will win. Winning in this case would be demonstrating exactly why people ought to trust him to be able to achieve what he hopes to achieve (by which I mean 'influence' not 'guarantee' FAI protection of humanity.)

I want to see more of this:

With Michael Vassar in charge, SIAI has become more transparent, and will keep on doing things meant to make it more transparent

and less of this:

I have to say that my overall impression here is of someone who manages to talk mostly LW language most of the time, but when his argument requires a step that just completely fails to make sense, like "And this is why if you're trying to minimize existential risk, you should support a charity that tries to stop tuberculosis" or "And this is where we're going to assume the worst possible case instead of the expected case and actually act that way", he'll just blithely keep going.

I'll leave aside ad hominim and note that tu quoque isn't always fallacious. Unfortunately in this case it is, in fact, important that Eliezer doesn't fall into the trap that he accuses multi of - deploying arguments as mere soldiers.

Comment author: Jordan 21 August 2010 11:02:36PM 9 points [-]

Well said.

In the past I've seen Eliezer respond to criticism very well. His responses seemed to be in good faith, even when abrasive. I use this signal as a heuristic for evaluating experts in fields I know little about. I'm versed in the area of existential risk reduction well enough not to need this heuristic, but I'm not versed in the area of the effectiveness of SIAI.

Eliezer's recent responses have reduced my faith in SIAI, which, after all, is rooted almost solely in my impression of its members. This is a double stroke: my faith in Eliezer himself is reduced, and the reason for this is a public appearance which will likely prevent others from supporting SIAI, which is more evidence to me that SIAI won't succeed.

SIAI (and Eliezer) still has a lot of credibility in my eyes, but I will be moving away from heuristics and looking for more concrete evidence as I debate whether to continue to be a supporter.