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multifoliaterose comments on Transparency and Accountability - Less Wrong
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This sort of conversation just makes me feel tired. I've had debates before about my personal psychology and feel like I've talked myself out about all of them. They never produced anything positive, and I feel that they were a bad sign for the whole mailing list they appeared on - I would be horrified to see LW go the way of SL4. The war is lost as soon as it starts - there is no winning move. I feel like I'm being held to an absurdly high standard, being judged as though I were trying to be the sort of person that people accuse me of thinking I am, that I'm somehow supposed to produce exactly the right mix of charming modesty while still arguing my way into enough funding for SIAI... it just makes me feel tired, and like I'm being held to a ridiculously high standard, and that it's impossible to satisfy people because the standard will keep going up, and like I'm being asking to solve PR problems that I never signed up for. I'll solve your math problems if I can, I'll build Friendly AI for you if I can, if you think SIAI needs some kind of amazing PR person, give us enough money to hire one, or better yet, why don't you try being perfect and see whether it's as easy as it sounds while you're handing out advice?
I have looked, and I have seen under the Sun, that to those who try to defend themselves, more and more attacks will be given. Like, if you try to defend yourself, people sense that as a vulnerability, and they know they can demand even more concessions from you. I tried to avoid that failure mode in my responses, and apparently failed. So let me state it plainly for you. I'll build a Friendly AI for you if I can. Anything else I can do is a bonus. If I say I can't do it, asking me again isn't likely to produce a different answer.
It was very clearly a mistake to have participated in this thread in the first place. It always is. Every single time. Other SIAI supporters who are better at that sort of thing can respond. I have to remember, now, that there are other people who can respond, and that there is no necessity for me to do it. In fact, someone really should have reminded me to shut up, and if it happens again, I hope someone will. I wish I could pull a Roko and just delete all my comments in all these threads, but that would be impolite.
Much of what you say here sounds quite reasonable. Since many great scientists have lacked social grace, it seems to me that your PR difficulties have no bearing on your ability to do valuable research.
I think that the trouble arises from the fact that people (including myself) have taken you to be an official representative of SIAI. As long as SIAI makes it clear that your remarks do not reflect SIAI's positions, there should be no problem.
There is an interesting question. Does it make a difference if one of the core subjects of research (rationality) strongly suggests different actions be taken and the core research goal (creating or influencing the creation of an FAI) requires particular standards in ethics and rationality? For FAI research behaviours that reflect ethically relevant decision making and rational thinking under pressure matter.
If you do research into 'applied godhood' then you can be expected to be held to particularly high standards.
Yes, these are good points.
What I was saying above is that if Eliezer wants to defer to other SIAI staff then we should seek justification from them rather than from him. Maybe they have good reasons for thinking that it's a good idea for him to do FAI research despite the issue that you mention.
I understand and I did vote your comment up. The point is relevant even if not absolutely so in this instance.