Zvi comments on Memetic Hazards in Videogames - Less Wrong

73 Post author: jimrandomh 10 September 2010 02:22AM

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Comment author: magfrump 10 September 2010 10:40:28AM 9 points [-]

As I was reading this, I realized that many of the points here apply heartily to single-player games, but the reverse is often true of MMOs.

A while back I spent a few years playing World of Warcraft, and ended up doing mid to high level raids.

When leveling, or completing a raid, you do know your purpose, and it is handed down from on high. This is unrealistic, but possibly one of the most relaxing aspects of escapism.

You DO NOT delay or take forever! While leveling or raiding, it is important to do things efficiently to meet your goals quickly. You want to hit max level ASAP, not see the whole low-level world; you want to see the whole high-level world.

When leveling or raiding, there is usually a specific build that is more powerful than the others. You have choices between various builds, but never more than 3 per character class, and usually the 3 are vastly different and you must choose one of them. For example, every rogue ever would take a talent that gives them +5 attack speed, but taking a bonus to speed while in stealth would get you kicked out of a hardcore guild.

In raiding, the difficulty isn't (strictly) progressive. Some fights are easier, some are harder. Some are more gear-dependent (i.e. harder until later in the game) but some of the fights in the highest-level raids were easier than some in the lowest level raids. It's also true that the difficulty mostly comes in learning how to do things the first time; after that it's easy to breeze through the content and most of the difficulty is in managing the guild.

Guides and patch notes are REQUIRED reading in most multiplayer games, because you have an obligation to support your team and defeat your opponents.

In terms of modeling the real world, MMOs are much better. On the other hand, they can be less fun. I've also experienced the multiplayer attitude leaking into other games (specifically D&D) and ruining the setup. I guess the lesson here may be that people are bad at changing heuristics when they change settings, in total agreement with the OP.

Comment author: Zvi 12 September 2010 12:00:03AM 2 points [-]

Why is the goal handed down from on high? I don't think even this break from reality is true in an MMO.

If we mean that the game is telling you what to do, what you have are various NPC questgivers (employers) who are hiring heroes (players) for various jobs and offering various rewards. Then each group of players (guild, group, etc) decides together which of these jobs they want to accept. Alternatively, there are places you can go with things to be accomplished. This isn't that different from freelance work.

Even when there is a central overriding goal, you are still free to ignore it and set your own goals.

If we mean that the guild is handing down the goal from on high, well, that's highly realistic: Your boss is telling his workers what to do. You don't like it, choose new leadership or quit.

Comment author: magfrump 12 September 2010 08:05:13AM 2 points [-]

I mean that your goals are extremely concrete, and their value is extremely concrete. "Kill this many boars and you will gain this many experience points." "Earn this many experience points and you will gain a level."

My conception of the real world is that goals tend to be vague ("figure out and fulfill my own utility function") and subgoals tend to be unpredictable (will keeping a diary help? A food diary? research on the internet? Spending time with friends? What balance between "figure out" and "fulfill"?)

It is true that the system is MORE liquid than in most single player RPGs, where it is not uncommon to encounter a narrator saying something like "monsters are everywhere! Our hero sets out to defeat them all!" Which is on a bit of a different level.