mattnewport comments on Self-Improvement or Shiny Distraction: Why Less Wrong is anti-Instrumental Rationality - Less Wrong

105 Post author: patrissimo 14 September 2010 04:17PM

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Comment author: AnnaSalamon 15 September 2010 05:20:23PM 23 points [-]

It’s critical to distinguish between ease/convenience and pleasure.

Absent conscious intervention, we don’t optimize for pleasure -- we optimize for a combination of pleasure and non-effort. For example, TV is for many people easy to choose, and work and exercise are hard to choose, despite TV having low-average enjoyment ratings, exercise having average ratings, and work having high-average ratings (see e.g. p. 243 of this book).

Patri’s concept of “shiny/fun”, insofar as it is correct, seems to be about low effort activities more than about high reward activities. To attain high personal growth, we need to learn to exert effort toward the highest-value learning and productivity tasks. As Patri emphasizes, this involves learning to direct our attention, learning to resist shiny, low-effort distractions, and to get through relatively boring local drudge work when needed. It does not, AFAICT, involve choosing less rewarding tasks on average; peak growth and productivity are often more rewarding (though also harder to choose) than clicking repeatedly on the “next comments” button.

(The ideas in this comment are stolen from Michael Vassar.)

Comment author: mattnewport 15 September 2010 05:44:13PM 10 points [-]

work and exercise are hard to choose

As I've mentioned elsewhere I've rarely experienced high pleasure from work but the exercise phenomenon is one I've been aware of for a long time. Going back to when I was a kid I remember the realization that I really hated getting up early and going out in the cold to play rugby but I enjoyed it once I was there. The same is true for most of the physical activities I do now.

I've never been able to 'integrate' this knowledge for exercise / physical activity though. Some people seem to reach a stage of genuinely anticipating exercise with pleasure but for me it is always still a conscious effort of reminding myself that I will enjoy it once I get going in order to overcome the reluctance and lack of motivation. I still fail at this more often than I'd like.

Comment author: gwern 24 September 2010 07:55:45PM 6 points [-]

I can second this one.

Literally hundreds of times I have realized that it will soon be time to go to tae kwon do class, and that I was dreading it, even though each time I mentally noted for future reference during class that I was enjoying myself considerably.

I sometimes wonder if a few hundred more repetitions will make the dread go away, but Laplace's rule is not optimistic.