patrissimo comments on Self-Improvement or Shiny Distraction: Why Less Wrong is anti-Instrumental Rationality - Less Wrong

105 Post author: patrissimo 14 September 2010 04:17PM

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Comment author: patrissimo 16 September 2010 03:52:29AM 2 points [-]
  1. Contrasting work, play, and deliberate practice, Dr. Ericsson (author of the book you cite and founder of the study of deliberate practice) writes (emphasis mine):

The external rewards of work activities include social recogni-tion and, most important, money in the form of prizes and pay,which enables performers to sustain a living. In play and deliberate practice, external rewards are almost completely lacking.The goal of play is the activity itself, and the inherent enjoymentof it is evident in children who spontaneously play for extendedperiods of time. Recent analyses of inherent enjoyment inadults reveal an enjoyable state of "flow," in which individualsare completely immersed in an activity (Csikszentmihalyi,1990). Similarly, analyses of reported "peak experiences" insports reveal an enjoyable state of effortless mastery and execution of an activity (Ravizza, 1984). This state of diffused attention is almost antithetical to focused attention required by deliberate practice to maximize feedback and information about corrective action.

In contrast to play, deliberate practice is a highly structured activity, the explicit goal of which is to improve performance.Specific tasks are invented to overcome weaknesses, and performance is carefully monitored to provide cues for ways to improve it further. We claim that deliberate practice requires effort and is not inherently enjoyable. Individuals are motivated to practice because practice improves performance. In addition, engaging in deliberate practice generates no immediatemonetary rewards and generates costs associated with access toteachers and training environments.

  • "The Role of Deliberate Practice in the Acquisition of Expert Performance" , K. Anders Ericsson, Ralf Th. Krampe, and Clemens Tesch-Romer.

So while I appreciate feedback from someone who has actually read the material, and while the list I used was certainly abbreviated and lacking nuanced, the same author uses the exact phrase "is not inherently enjoyable". Does not mean that it can't be enjoyable, only that if it is, it will be by random coincidence, so it usually won't be. It could be that the research has changed - the handbook you cite was published in 2006, the paper I cite was published in 1993.

Comment author: wedrifid 16 September 2010 08:33:37AM *  4 points [-]

and while the list I used was certainly abbreviated and lacking nuanced

An abbreviation of "Not necessarily inherently enjoyable" would be less misleading abbreviation. (Albeit still seeming out of place if found anywhere near the top of the list of tenets.)

Does not mean that it can't be enjoyable, only that if it is, it will be by random coincidence, so it usually won't be.

The "usually won't be" is not implied by the source and isn't the point they are trying to convey. The "will be by random coincidence" is clearly false. There is a strong (and rational) motive for people wishing to achieve mastery to alter their intrinsic motivation responses (using mind hacking, etc) such that they do find deliberate practice inherently enjoyable. Apart from that there is a significant selection effect in place - people who find deliberate practice inherently enjoyable are far, far more likely to do it in volumes that are at all significant. This applies to me, for example - I take near masochistic pleasure in that kind of physical and mental exertion and so structure my life such that I do more of it.

I couldn't tell you whether the phrase 'is not inherently enjoyable' is in the 1996 reference. I don't recall it but it also isn't something I pick out as a take home message in the quote you make so I most likely wouldn't have included it in my supermemo notes on the subject in any case, at least not with that wording.

Contrasting work, play, and deliberate practice, Dr. Ericsson (author of the book you cite and founder of the study of deliberate practice) writes (emphasis mine):

I again appreciate the overall contrasts we're considering here. What I reject is the claim "IF enjoyable THEN NOT deliberate practice" which is what is implied by the tenet list. From your reply I don't think that is a position that you are trying to take and I do appreciate the clarification and reference.

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