sark comments on Intellectual Hipsters and Meta-Contrarianism - Less Wrong

147 Post author: Yvain 13 September 2010 09:36PM

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Comment author: Spurlock 13 September 2010 10:19:46PM 12 points [-]

I think it's worth noting explicitly (though you certainly noted it implicitly) that meta-contrarianism does not simply agree with the original, non-contrarian opinion. Meta-contrarianism usually goes to great lengths to signal that it is indeed the level above, and absolutely not the level below, the default position.

An example, from a guy who lives in a local hipster capital:

People not interested in (or just unskilled at) looking cool will mostly buy their clothing at places like Wal-Mart. The "contrarian" cluster differentiates itself by shopping at very expensive, high-status stores (dropping $150 on a pair of jeans, say). Your hipster crowd does not respond to this by returning to Wal-Mart. Instead, they get very distinct retro or otherwise unusual clothing from thrift stores and the like, places that no one who simply, actually didn't care about signaling would never bother to seek out.

The counter-counter culture often cares just as much about differentiating itself from the culture as it does the counter-culture. The noveau-riche may not have to worry about this, if in their case it comes automatically, but other groups do.

Comment author: sark 14 September 2010 07:26:30AM 1 point [-]

The counter-counter culture often cares just as much about differentiating itself from the culture as it does the counter-culture.

There are other dimensions in which the counter-counter people can signal their difference from the non-counters (e.g. hipsters are already living in upper class neighborhoods, have upper class mannerisms etc.). This makes it possible for a simple reversal in the uninformed/contrary/meta-contrary dimension to differentiate them from the counters.

Comment author: Spurlock 14 September 2010 12:13:49PM 3 points [-]

Absolutely. This is the sort of thing I was referring to in the last sentence.

The point being, just because they don't seem to go to great pains to distinguish themselves from the non-counters, doesn't mean they're only trying to differentiate from one group: status above both is still the goal, even if they don't have to actively "seek" it.

Comment author: sark 14 September 2010 02:45:27PM *  1 point [-]

No problem. I was just providing a live example of metacontrarianism ;)