orthonormal comments on Reflections on a Personal Public Relations Failure: A Lesson in Communication - Less Wrong

37 Post author: multifoliaterose 01 October 2010 12:29AM

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Comment author: jimrandomh 01 October 2010 04:36:14AM 4 points [-]

I feel like you still haven't understood the main criticism of your posts. You have acknowledged every mistake except for having an incorrect conclusion. All the thousands of words you've written avoid confronting the main point, which is whether people should donate to SIAI. To answer this, we need four numbers:

  1. The marginal effect that donating a dollar to SIAI has on the probabilities of of friendly AI being developed, and of human extinction
  2. The utilities of friendly AI and of human extinction
  3. The utility of the marginal next-best use of money.

We don't need exact numbers, but we emphatically do need orders of magnitude. If you get the order magnitude of any one of 1-3 wrong, then your conclusion is shot. The problem is, estimating orders of magnitude is a hard skill; it can be learned, but it is not widespread. And if you don't have that skill, you cannot reason correctly about the topic.

So far, you have given exactly one order of magnitude estimate, and it was shot down as ridiculous by multiple qualified people. Since then, you have consistently refused to give any numbers whatsoever. The logical conclusion is that, like most people, you lack the order of magnitude estimation skill. And unfortunately, that means that you cannot speak credibly on questions where order of magnitude estimation is required.

Comment author: orthonormal 01 October 2010 02:13:37PM 11 points [-]

When someone says they're rethinking an estimate and don't want to give a number right now, I think that's respectable in the same way as someone who's considering a problem and refuses to propose solutions too soon. There's an anchoring effect that kicks in when you put down a number.

From my private communications with multifolaterose, I believe he's acting in good faith by refusing to assign a number, for essentially that reason.

Comment author: jimrandomh 01 October 2010 02:28:23PM 5 points [-]

The link to Human inability to assign numerical probabilities, and the distance into the future which he deferred the request, gave me the impression that it was a matter of not wanting to assign a number at all, not merely deferring it until later. Thank you for pointing out the more charitable interpretation; you seem to have some evidence that I don't.

Comment author: multifoliaterose 01 October 2010 02:49:08PM *  2 points [-]

Orthonormal correctly understands where I'm coming from. I feel that I have very poor information on the matter at hand and want to collect a lot more information before evaluating the cost-effectiveness of donating to SIAI relative to other charities. I fully appreciate your point that in the end it's necessary to make quantitative comparisons and plan on doing so after learning more.

I'll also say that I agree with rwallace's comment that rather than giving an estimate of the probability at hand, it's both easier and sufficient to give an estimate of

The relative magnitudes of the marginal effects of spending a dollar on X vs Y.

Comment author: multifoliaterose 01 October 2010 02:58:14PM 1 point [-]

Thanks for articulating my thinking so accurately and concisely.