MrShaggy comments on The Irrationality Game - Less Wrong

38 Post author: Will_Newsome 03 October 2010 02:43AM

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Comment author: MrShaggy 08 October 2010 05:02:41AM 21 points [-]

Eating lots of bacon fat and sour cream can reverse heart disease. Very confident (>95%).

Comment author: RomanDavis 17 December 2010 10:58:45PM 2 points [-]

Downvoted. I've seen the evidence, too.

Comment author: MrShaggy 24 December 2010 03:43:52AM 2 points [-]

Downvoted means you agree (on this thread), correct? If so, I've wanted to see a post on rationality and nutrition for a while (on the benefits of high-animal fat diet for health and the rationality lessons behind why so many demonize that and so few know it).

Comment author: Desrtopa 17 December 2010 11:11:14PM 0 points [-]

What evidence?

If you're referring to the Atkins diet, I think that's a rather different matter from simply eating lots of bacon fat and sour cream, which doesn't preclude also eating plenty of carbohydrates.

Or worse, it might entail eating nothing else. The post isn't very precise.

Comment author: RomanDavis 17 December 2010 11:19:24PM *  1 point [-]

Eating some is better than none, because certain nutrients in animal fat are helpful for CDC. The point that vegetarianism is over rated for the health benefits is contrarian enough here and in the wider world to make a good post.

But yes, losing other vital nutrients would be bad.

And Atkins is silly and unhealthy. Why bring it up?

Comment author: Desrtopa 17 December 2010 11:40:41PM 1 point [-]

Because I thought that might be what you were referring to.

My mother lost about 90 pounds on it, and her health is definitely better than it was when she was overweight, but it did have some rather unpleasant side effects (although she generally refuses to acknowledge them, since they're lost in the halo effect.)

Comment author: JGWeissman 08 October 2010 05:13:28AM 2 points [-]

You have to actually think your degree of belief is rational.

I doubt you are following this rule.

Comment author: MrShaggy 09 October 2010 06:09:36AM *  3 points [-]

I was worried people would think that, but if I posted links to present evidence, I ran the risk of convincing them so they wouldn't vote it up! All I've eaten in the past three weeks is: pork belly, butter, egg yolks (and a few whites), cheese, sour cream (like a tub every three days), ground beef, bacon fat (saved from cooking bacon) and such. Now, that's no proof about the medical claim but I hope it's an indication that I'm not just bullshiting. But for a few links: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19179058 (the K2 in question is virtually found only in animal fats and meats, see http://www.westonaprice.org/abcs-of-nutrition/175-x-factor-is-vitamin-k2.html#fig4)--the pubmed is on prevention of heart disease in humans http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/11/can-vitamin-k2-reverse-arterial.html shows reversal in rat studies from K2 http://trackyourplaque.com/ -- a clinic that uses K2 among other things to reverse heart disease note that I am not trying to construct a rational argument but to convince people that I do hold this belief. I do think a rational argument can be constructed but this is not it.

Comment author: jkaufman 14 September 2011 06:44:46PM 3 points [-]

This was about a year ago: do you still hold this belief? Has eating like you described worked out?

Comment author: MrShaggy 11 October 2011 02:08:55PM *  1 point [-]

Not just hold the belief but eat that way even more consistently (more butter and less sour cream just because tastes change, but same basic principles). I'm young and didn't have any obvious signs of heart disease personally so can't say it "worked out" for me personally in that literal, narrow sense but I feel better, more mentally clear, etc. (I know that's kinda whatever of evidence, just saying since you asked).

Someone else recently posted their success with butter lowering their measurement of arterial plaque: "the second score was better (lower) than the first score. The woman in charge of the testing center said this was very rare — about 1 time in 100. The usual annual increase is about 20 percent." (http://blog.sethroberts.net/2011/08/04/how-rare-my-heart-scan-improvement/) (Note: I disagree with the poster's reasoning methods in general, just noting his score change.)

There was a recent health symposium that discussed this idea and related ones: http://vimeo.com/ancestralhealthsymposium/videos/page:1/sort:newest.

For those specifically related to heart health, these are most of them: http://vimeo.com/ancestralhealthsymposium/videos/search:heart/sort:newest