Vladimir_Nesov comments on Notion of Preference in Ambient Control - Less Wrong

14 Post author: Vladimir_Nesov 07 October 2010 09:21PM

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Comment author: Tyrrell_McAllister 09 October 2010 12:12:57AM *  0 points [-]

Okay, I'm convinced. In case it helps someone else, here is how I now understand your argument.

We have an agent written in some program. Because the agent is a computer program, and because our 1st-order logic can handle recursion, we can write down a wff [w(x)], with one free variable x, such that, for any action-constant X, [w(X)] is a theorem if and only if the agent does v(X).

[ETA: Vladimir points out that it isn't handling recursion alone that suffices. Nonetheless, a theory like PA or ZFC is apparently powerful enough to do this. I don't yet understand the details of how this works, but it certainly seems very plausible to me.]

In particular, if the agent goes through a sequence of operations that conclude with the agent doing v(X), then that sequence of operations can be converted systematically into a proof of [w(X)]. Conversely, if [w(X)] is a theorem, then it has a proof that can be reinterpreted as the sequence of operations that the agent will carry out, and which will conclude with the agent doing v(X).

The wff [w(x)] also has the property that, given two constant U and V, [w(U) & w(V)] entails [U = V].

Now, the agent's axiom system includes [w(A)], where A is a constant symbol. Thus, if the agent does v(X), then [w(A)] and [w(X)] are both theorems, so we must have that [A=X] is a theorem.

Comment author: Vladimir_Nesov 09 October 2010 08:42:43AM *  0 points [-]

This works (although "because our 1st-order logic can handle recursion" is not it, etc.). (Note that "[w(X)] is a theorem of T if and only if X is as we need" is weak T-representability, while I cited the strong kind, that also guarantees [~w(X)] being a theorem if X is not as we need.)

Comment author: Tyrrell_McAllister 09 October 2010 03:05:43PM 0 points [-]

(although "because our 1st-order logic can handle recursion" is not it, etc.).

That was there because of this line from your post: "The theory should provide sufficient tools to define recursive functions and/or other necessary concepts."

Comment author: Vladimir_Nesov 09 October 2010 03:12:06PM *  0 points [-]

Doesn't make it an explanatory sufficient condition to conclude what you did: I object to your use of "because".

Comment author: Tyrrell_McAllister 09 October 2010 08:35:19PM *  0 points [-]

Okay, thanks. My understanding is definitely vaguest at the point where the agent's program is converted into the wff [w(x)]. Still, the argument is at the point of seeming very plausible to me.

Comment author: Vladimir_Nesov 09 October 2010 08:43:17PM 0 points [-]

No worries. Your logic seems rusty though, so if you want to build something in this direction, you should probably reread a good textbook.

Comment author: Tyrrell_McAllister 09 October 2010 09:40:10PM *  0 points [-]

Not so much rusty as never pursued beyond the basics. The logic I know is mostly from popular books like Gödel, Escher, Bach, plus a philosophy course on modal logic, where I learned the basic concepts used to talk about interpretations of theories.