orthonormal comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 4 - Less Wrong

3 Post author: gjm 07 October 2010 09:12PM

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Comment author: orthonormal 26 October 2010 10:02:43PM 6 points [-]

The most direct interpretation of "it was too late" is that Harry's Patronus was down long enough for the Dementors to find them and see Bellatrix had escaped.

Comment author: EchoingHorror 27 October 2010 06:58:48AM 2 points [-]

Probably. And with the Aurors coming, Harry won't have the chance to recast his Patronus before they all find him and give him a good talking-to.

Prediction in rot13: Bs pbhefr, jura gurl neevir, gurer jvyy or rvtug yrffre cngebav xrrcvat gur srne bs qrngu bss Dhveeryy. Vs gur fghaavat fcryy unf jbea bss, naq gur snpg gung ur guerj njnl uvf jnaq naq ghearq vagb n fanxr zrnaf gur qrzragbef ner uvf ceboyrz, abg gur pynfu jvgu Uneel'f zntvp, V cerqvpg fbzr irel vagrerfgvat guvatf jvyy unccra. Zbfgyl rcvp cjantr. Rvtug vf rabhtu, evtug?

Comment author: pjeby 27 October 2010 04:51:52PM 4 points [-]

The fear of dementors isn't Quirrel's problem, it's that his spell and Harry's touched. He threw away his wand to stop the magical cascade, and Harry was screaming because he felt the same thing, but didn't understand it as quickly as Quirrel did.

Comment author: EchoingHorror 28 October 2010 01:19:05AM 1 point [-]

Does that also explain why he turned back into a snake? I must have missed where that and throwing away a wand can help with a magical cascade.

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 28 October 2010 01:05:36PM 1 point [-]

It will be aesthetically unsatisfying if turning into a snake helps.

Comment author: thomblake 05 November 2010 06:00:56PM 2 points [-]

Note that on Quirrell's "Evil Overlord List", Rule 34 ("I will not turn into a snake. It never helps.") has been replaced by (translated from Parseltongue) "Become Animaguss. All ssensible people do, if can. Thuss, very rare." (Per chapter 49)

Comment author: Vladimir_Nesov 05 November 2010 06:26:12PM 1 point [-]

Note that on Quirrell's "Evil Overlord List", Rule 34 ("I will not turn into a snake. It never helps.") has been replaced by (translated from Parseltongue) "Become Animaguss. All ssensible people do, if can. Thuss, very rare." (Per chapter 49)

Or, "I will turn into a snake. It always helps."

Comment author: cousin_it 05 November 2010 06:12:28PM *  0 points [-]

It's a weird coincidence that the rule would have number 34.

Comment author: thomblake 05 November 2010 06:33:44PM 0 points [-]

Well, there are more than 33 rules. It's not a particularly weird coincidence.

Comment author: wedrifid 05 November 2010 06:42:17PM *  2 points [-]

Not weird, perhaps, but rule 34 on Quirrel's snake form is certainly creepy.

Comment author: pjeby 28 October 2010 03:38:24AM 1 point [-]

I don't know why he turned back into a snake; others have suggested he's less susceptible to Dementor influence in that case. It is also possible that his alternate form was some kind of magic done to his snake form, and that he simply reverted to snake form on losing control of whatever was producing his fake human form.

That throwing away the wand is helpful was suggested by the previous incident with the dementors and Harry's wand.

Actually, it's possible that 1) he needed to throw the wand away to stop the cascade, but 2) became a snake to avoid any Dementor influence happening by way of the wand. He may also have felt that Bellatrix would be less likely to kill Voldemort's favorite snake than some random human tool/servant of his.

Comment author: Vladimir_Nesov 05 November 2010 06:28:37PM 0 points [-]

Snakes are easier to carry, for example.

Comment author: wedrifid 05 November 2010 06:36:26PM *  0 points [-]

More energy efficient. Less hygiene requirements.

Comment author: Vladimir_Nesov 26 October 2010 10:09:36PM *  0 points [-]

I don't see this interpretation as plausible, too much implied drama for such an insignificant event in context (as more evidence, "last seconds tickling away" is a death metaphor). Dementors alerting Aurors about the escape is just the last nail in the coffin.

Comment author: orthonormal 27 October 2010 04:06:58PM 3 points [-]

No, it's the last seconds ticking away for a successful escape attempt- if Harry had put up his Patronus, there might have been time for Quirrell to recover, use a Memory Charm on the Auror, and abscond with BB without raising the alarm.

Comment author: Vladimir_Nesov 27 October 2010 04:16:00PM *  2 points [-]

I now see that as more plausible than originally (having learned that my interpretation is not obvious to others), but remain uncertain and favoring the hypothesis of Quirrell having died. We'll see what was actually intended.

Comment author: Vladimir_Nesov 28 October 2010 05:13:01PM *  0 points [-]

...and if I replace my previous assumption that Quirrell collapsed as a direct result of Dementor influence that was opened by disappearance of Potter's Patronus, with the much more plausible assumption that he collapsed because of magic incompatibility with Potter's Patronus of the same nature as what killed him the first time, and only additionally suffered from Dementors, then it doesn't follow that Dementors cause overwhelming harm, and so that prolonged exposure leads to death. This also explains throwing away the wand: make own magic weaker to reduce the effect of magical incompatibility.

Thus, now the hypothesis that Quirrell died seems less plausible than the alternative.