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PeerInfinity comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 4 - Less Wrong
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I agree entirely.
In chapter 52, I was able to empathize with Harry. I felt what he was feeling. And the feelings were was surprisingly intense.
But in the next chapters the story just started getting too unrealistic, and Harry became an impossibly superpowered character, and I lost my emotional connection with him.
This was a constant problem throughout the rest of the story too, but the problem is especially egregious in this story arc. And the impossibly-superpoweredness kept escalating.
Chapter 52 was vaguely plausible.
Chapter 53 might have been plausible, if Harry had a lot of time to prepare.
Chapter 54 was only slightly less realistic than chapter 53.
And I thought that after Chapter 54, this story arc was over. Harry failed at his mission, and just had to keep from losing his mind entirely before the aurors found him and he had to face the consequences of his actions.
But then in chapter 55, he made a miraculous recovery. Noone could recover like that. Not even Eliezer Himself could recover like that.
From then on, this wasn't a story about a real person, it was a story about an impossibly superpowered character, and the story lost almost all of its emotional impact.
I still think Harry should have just given up, and turned himself in to the aurors. I don't see how this could possibly end well, and Harry's actions in chapters 55 and 56 are just making things a whole lot worse.
But this is a story, and so of course it's going to end well, no matter how stupid or reckless the protagonist seems to be acting.
It's still an awesome story though, it's just that the suspension of disbelief is gone.
But that's just my opinion. Your Mileage May Vary.
EDIT: ok, I accept Eliezer's explanation and David Allen's explanation of why Harry was able to recover. I take back my complaint about Harry's recovery being unrealistic. But, not knowing what Harry's plan is in chapters 55 and 56, it still seems to me like Harry would have been better off giving up.
One of Harry's established traits is his highly trained reflex to question his own perceptions, especially under difficult circumstances.
This situation is probably the most extreme that we have seen Harry in. In this context that ability comes across as a super-power, but it is not out-of-character.
I agree with most of your comments, but -
So you'd offer 4-1 odds on that bet?
sorry, what I should have said is that the story as a whole will end well. It's still possible that Harry's actions in this particular story arc will have disastrous consequences, that Harry will have to try to fix later. It's also very likely that Harry won't be able to fix all of the disastrous consequences.
but I would still offer 1-1 odds that this particular story arc will end without disastrous consequences... though there is some ambiguity about what counts as "disastrous".
um... oops... did I just challenge Eliezer to not give this story a happy ending? I want a happy ending. or at least a bittersweet ending. It's just that I would prefer if the protagonist didn't recklessly get into impossible situations that he then goes on to use impossible superpowers to get out of.
And what happened to Harry having learned how to lose? This seems like a situation where losing immediately is the best option. The more Harry resists, the worse things will be when he loses. Unless something really improbable happens.
Anyway, I expect that all of these things that I'm complaining about are probably a case of "the plot demands it". It would have been nice if Eliezer could have avoided these problems, but sometimes you just can't please everyone.
Also, we won't know for sure if Harry is holding the idiot ball until we find out what his plan is, hopefully in the next chapter.
oh, and is it just me, or are the words "trust the author" really unconvincing? I mean, if you already know how generally awesome Eliezer is, it's a whole lot easier to trust him as an author, but those words would be entirely unconvincing to anyone who hasn't heard of Eliezer before... though he has already earned lots of trust with the previous chapters...
(Harry having to learn how to lose was great.)
Remember "The Cold Equations"? I wouldn't be shocked if Eliezer wound the entire fanfic up with some similar message.
I remember the extensive discussion about "The Cold Equations", in which it was concluded that the only way that sort of tragedy could be generated would be if there was massive organizational incompetence.
Stowaways were a known problem. Why wasn't the spaceship locked? Why was there a door on the closet?
I think a reasonably happy ending is forced for MOR. Harry survives. So do other major good characters. However, perhaps a MFAI (Magical FAI) is created, and power and responsibility are handed off to it. What would Harry do with the rest of eternity then?
I think there's textual evidence suggesting that he would have descendants and then attend a lot of birthday parties on celestial objects.
He might still enjoy exploring how magic works-- I expect it's as rich a field as physics. (Last I heard, the idea that physics may offer unlimited depths is still respectable.)
Ending for a rationalist fairy tale: And then they learned how to live happily ever after.
But he gets the 'ever after' before he learns how to make 'happiness'
Harry will invent Fun Theory, of course. And then he'll spend the rest of eternity testing and improving this Fun Theory.
I would think Rowling's creation and management of the Harry Potter universe is quite clearly an example of massive organizational incompetence. Eliezer's characters might try their very hardest to save themselves, but like the stowaway they were dead the moment they were born into Rowling's universe.
No no no no no. Not a stupid space Aesop as in the cold equation. No!
What an awful story. I just read it, and am now in a state of outrage.
The message is ostensibly that the laws of nature don't care about human welfare, which, as we all know, is true enough. But the problem described in the story is entirely human-caused: a straightforward engineering failure. It's the result of stupidity, poor planning, and failing to learn from past mistakes.
And the sexism ("OMG It's a girl!") makes it all the more distasteful, although that's probably unfair of me, since it was after all written in the 1950s.
I can't see Eliezer writing a story like this. Ever.