bogdanb comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 4 - Less Wrong

3 Post author: gjm 07 October 2010 09:12PM

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Comment author: bogdanb 03 November 2010 11:50:20AM 2 points [-]

If a male who just lost his virginity is obliviated about that particular fact, is any part of his innocence lost?

Comment author: Perplexed 03 November 2010 03:16:08PM 1 point [-]

Only if he develops a rash, or his T-cell count falls.

Comment author: wedrifid 03 November 2010 03:32:18PM 0 points [-]

If a male who just lost his virginity is obliviated about that particular fact, is any part of his innocence lost?

Not in the emotional and psychological sense that 'innocence' is sometimes used. However sometimes 'innocence' is (or, particularly, has been) hijacked for a more crude but less literal meaning. Like 'know' or even just 'powder my nose'. That kind of trivial boolean innocence is lost.

Comment author: Document 03 November 2010 08:32:32PM *  0 points [-]

Not in the emotional and psychological sense that 'innocence' is sometimes used.

Not necessarily, if Obliviate doesn't literally restore your brain to the exact state it was in before the period in question.

Comment author: wedrifid 04 November 2010 04:56:22PM 2 points [-]

Hmmm. Now I'm wondering whether obliviation could be exploited to enhance the experience of early (but not technically first) sexual encounters. If one maintained the changes to confidence and presumably sexually relevant skills but also maintained the excitement, anticipation and perception of novelty of the first time...

Comment author: TobyBartels 05 November 2010 03:16:34AM 2 points [-]

Didn't Madonna have a song about this?

Comment author: Document 05 November 2010 04:01:16AM 1 point [-]

Sort of implemented in John C. Wright's Orphans of Chaos:

My guess was this: He wanted this to be his first kiss. At the moment, it was. If the experiment worked, and he got his memory back, this memory would still contain, nevertheless, in all innocence and all solemnity, love's first kiss.

Comment author: wedrifid 05 November 2010 04:18:06AM 0 points [-]

Good book?

Comment author: Document 05 November 2010 05:09:56AM 0 points [-]

Eh. Not so much that I feel compelled to read the third one.

Comment author: TheOtherDave 03 November 2010 09:29:08PM *  0 points [-]

Restoring the exact brain state is probably overkill.

I'd expect resetting to their previous values the connection-strengths in the portion of the conceptual activation network centered around <sex> to restore what I understand by "innocence" in this context.

In fact, it might be sufficient (assuming you didn't have the old values lying around to support a real reset) to just lower those connection-strengths by a constant factor. Which would perhaps be installing a new innocence rather than restoring the old one, but not only do I suspect it would be very hard to tell the difference, I'm not actually sure the distinction means anything in the first place.

Anyway, perhaps I'm just being pedantic. But it seems worthwhile, in a community that is often concerned with mind-as-algorithm rather than mind-as-attribute-of-brain, to acknowledge the distinction.

As long as I'm here, I should mention a third approach: activating an additional node that inhibits <sex>. A lot of real-world attempts at preserving innocence seem to operate this way, although it seems to me that the result is nothing at all like the innocence they purport to preserve.

Comment author: WrongBot 03 November 2010 03:24:44PM 0 points [-]

I suppose that would depend on how one defines virginity. And innocence, for that matter; the two need not be synonymous.

Comment author: MartinB 03 November 2010 03:37:12PM 0 points [-]
Comment author: WrongBot 03 November 2010 04:01:55PM 1 point [-]

Ah. I guess the laws of narrative causality demand that Draco Malfoy actually be a female 13 year-old rapist pregnant with Harry's baby. Given what he's up against, Harry really needs to be as fully-qualified a protagonist as possible.

I wonder if Dumbledore was the one who arranged it...

Comment author: MartinB 03 November 2010 07:18:38PM 0 points [-]

Males don't get raped. At least not till 1992. There will be a trope for that too.

Comment author: Sniffnoy 03 November 2010 07:51:11PM 1 point [-]

Sorry, what's meant by this?

Comment author: MartinB 03 November 2010 08:02:36PM *  1 point [-]

This trope: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RapeIsOkWhenItIsFemaleOnMale and this movie: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disclosure_(film) Which brought the topic of males getting raped into the realm of the acceptable legal topics. Obviously it is not okay to rape anyone, but in many cases males have problems getting heard when it happens to them. Same goes for domestic violence.

Edit: added 2 missing words

Comment author: Document 03 November 2010 08:29:27PM 0 points [-]

Huh. I initially upvoted assuming it was a reference to some law passed in the UK.