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arundelo comments on References & Resources for LessWrong - Less Wrong
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Comments (81)
Why "infamous"?
Whoops! Yes, that's clearly the wrong word. Thank you. To my excuse, I never learnt English formally but basically taught it myself with time :-)
I dunno, Permutation City is pretty infamous in my books because it presents disquieting ideas I don't know how to disprove. (Kind of like Boltzmann Brains or the Eternal Return.)
Thank you, I was about to comment on this; you've given me a needed data point.
Permutation City is the only work of fiction I've enjoyed that I do not go around recommending, because I'm wary that to a reader without the requisite specialized background to separate the parts based on real science from the parts that are pure fiction, it might actually be something of a memetic hazard.
If you are going to recommend it, I would suggest accompanying the recommendation with a link to the antidote
So your strategy is basically 'subjective anticipation is a useful but ultimately incoherent idea; Permutation City takes it to an absurdum'?
That's a good idea, but I don't think your antidote post is strong enough. Subjective anticipation is a deeply-held belief, after all.
I agree, I think the antidote post is better than nothing, but I recommend it in addition to, not instead of, the memetic hazard label.
I haven't added the antidote post as accompanying reading, as I have to read it yet, but 'The Logical Fallacy of Generalization from Fictional Evidence' post by EY. Reload and see the fiction section. Not sure, maybe a bit drastic. But at least it is obvious now.
I don't think that Permutation City being fiction matters (if I understand your comment).
The nonfiction ideas stand on their own, though they were presented in (somewhat didactic) fiction: that computation can be sliced up arbitrarily in space and time, that it be 'instantiated' on almost arbitrary arrangements of matter, and that this implies the computation of our consciousness can 'jump' from correct random arrangement of matter (like space dust) to correct random arrangement, lasting forever, and hooking in something like quantum suicide so that it's even likely...
If it were simply pointing out that the fiction presupposes all sorts of arbitrary and unlikely hidden mechanisms like Skynet wanting to exterminate humanity, Permutation City would not be a problem. But it shows its work, and we LWers frequently accept the premises.
However, the book could also mislead people to believe those arbitrary and unlikely elements if they are linked to them on a list of resources for LessWrong. That's why I think a drastic warning is appropriate. Science fiction can give you a lot of ideas but can also seduce you to believe things that might be dangerous, like that there is no risk from AI.
I introduced a new label M for Memetic Hazard and added a warning sign including a accompanying text to the fiction section.
And I see a number of other things that merited the memetic hazard label also now have it, good idea. I'd suggest that it also be added to the current links in the artificial intelligence section, and to the link on quantum suicide.
Maybe also add a link to Eliezer's Permutation City crossover story, now that we have the requisite memetic hazard label for such a link?
I thought quantum suicide is not controversial since MWI is obviously correct? And the AI section? Well, the list is supposed to reflect the opinions hold in the LW community, especially by EY and the SIAI. I'm trying my best to do so and by that standard, how controversial is AI going FOOM etc.?
Eliezer's Permutation City crossover story? It is on the list for some time, if you are talking about the 'The Finale of the Ultimate Meta Mega Crossover' story.
I agree MWI is solid, I'm not suggesting that be flagged. But it does not in any way imply quantum suicide; the latter is somewhere between fringe and crackpot, and a proven memetic hazard with at least one recorded death to its credit.
Well, AI go FOOM etc is again somewhere in the area between fringe and crackpot, as judged by people who actually know about the subject. If the list were specifically supposed to represent the opinions of the SIAI, then it would belong on the SIAI website, not on LW.
So it is, cool.
I hadn't heard of this -- can you give more details?
Everett's daughter, Elizabeth, suffered from manic depression and committed suicide in 1996 (saying in her suicide note that she was going to a parallel universe to be with her father)
I expected the link to be the Ultimate Meta Mega Crossover.
(disclaimer: haven't read)