MagnetoHydroDynamics comments on Morality and relativistic vertigo - Less Wrong

40 Post author: Academian 12 October 2010 02:00AM

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Comment author: Vladimir_M 12 October 2010 06:23:08AM *  8 points [-]

Also, this line of argument struck me as a sneaky piece of Dark Arts, though in all likelihood unintentional:

Countering the counterargument that morality is too imprecise to be treated by science, he [Sam Harris] makes an excellent comparison: "healthy" is not a precisely defined concept, but no one is crazy enough to utter that medicine cannot answer questions of health.

Actually, in the overwhelming majority of cases, "healthy" is a very precisely and uncontroversially defined concept. Nobody would claim that I became healthier if I started coughing blood, lost control of a limb, or developed chronic headaches.

However, observe one area where the concept of "health" is actually imprecise and controversial, namely mental health. And guess what: there are many smart and eminently sane people questioning whether, to what extent, and in what situations medicine can legitimately answer questions of health in this area. (I recommend this recent interview with Gary Greenberg as an excellent example.) Moreover, in this area, there are plenty of questions where both ideological and venal interests interfere with the discussion, and as a result, it's undeniable that at least some corruption of science has taken place, and that supposedly scientific documents like the DSM are laden with judgments that reflect these influences rather than any real scientific knowledge.

So, it seems to me that properly considered, this example actually undermines the case it was supposed to support.

Comment author: [deleted] 14 September 2012 10:32:43AM 0 points [-]

May I just remark that we are not libertarian deontologists, but rather determinist consequentialists; mental illness can be bad in many ways: Patient zerself can express that it is undesirable (many developmentally handicapped people are aware of their disability), patient's peers and loved ones can express that it is undesirable (my uncle is manic depressive and only admitted so to himself in his early fourties), the mental illness can have negative repercussions to society (treatment costs, damages caused by the patient), a prospective mother can express that having a child with a disorder is undesirable, etc.

Mental illness is illness, right there in the name is the first clue. Most patients will upon realising they have a disorder want it gone, if for no other reason than to fit in. Classifying what things are disorders and which aren't is just looking at the consequences of it and making a cost benefit analysis.