timtyler comments on Dealing with the high quantity of scientific error in medicine - Less Wrong

36 Post author: NancyLebovitz 25 October 2010 01:53PM

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Comment author: byrnema 27 October 2010 03:13:50AM 0 points [-]

And finally, try to avoid using the terms "evolutionarily old" and "highly evolved".

OK, corrected, thanks. I definitely see the problem with 'highly evolved'. (For example, a "highly evolved" organism could lose and gain the ability to make a vitamin many times over). I was having trouble separating the ideas of 'older' (as in chronologically first) and 'autotroph' (as in independent). Animals don't dependably make the vitamins they need from plants because they can get these vitamins from plants. Plants, though, couldn't and can't depend upon something else producing them, so they make them on their own.

Much autotroph biomass is indigestible (think tree trunks) and some of the rest is deliberately poisonous.

Yes, of course. It was sloppy of me not to add the qualifier, 'if edible'. Instead, what about the validity of this statement: regardless of its edibility, and the amount and type of toxins that might be present, any plant part would be expected to have as many vitamins as a fruit part? The argument being that plants did not have evolutionary pressure to make their fruits particularly full of vitamins?

Furthermore, we ought to eat stuff that has good ingredients - we don't really care whether it makes them itself, or steals them from the manufacturer.

Agreed. My question is why the former would be healthier. Perhaps because manufacturers sequester more, in greater concentrations?

Comment author: timtyler 27 October 2010 04:07:16AM *  2 points [-]

The argument being that plants did not have evolutionary pressure to make their fruits particularly full of vitamins?

Animals have abilities to detect whether what they eat is nutritious, plants give the animals what they want. That includes things like Vitamin C - though that isn't an essential nutrient for most animals.

E.g. see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_appetite

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 23 December 2010 04:34:20AM 1 point [-]

As mattnewport mentioned above our ancestors evolved to live on fruits. Most animals can synthesis their own vitamin C. We only lost that ability because our ancestors had so much of it in their diet that they didn't need to synthesize it.

If fruits didn't contain vitamin C, we wouldn't have lost the ability to synthesize it, possibly losing the ability to synthesize something else that they did have.