PhilGoetz comments on Group selection update - Less Wrong

38 Post author: PhilGoetz 01 November 2010 04:51PM

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Comment author: timtyler 02 November 2010 09:53:56AM *  3 points [-]

Wikipedia gives an acceptable definition:

In evolutionary biology, group selection refers to the idea that alleles can become fixed or spread in a population because of the benefits they bestow on groups, regardless of the alleles' effect on the fitness of individuals within that group.

In the context of biology or ecology, a "population" is defined as being a collection of organisms of the same species:

A population is all the organisms that both belong to the same species and live in the same geographical area.

Population: In biology and ecology, a group of organisms of one species, living in a certain area. The organisms are able to interbreed. It also refers to the members of a given species in a community of living things.

population: a group of organisms of the same species inhabiting a given area

For examples of group selection critics being more sympathetic towards species selection, see Dawkins, T.E.P., page 101 onwards and Mark Ridley's evolution textbook:

For a different definition, consider:

Group selection is said to occur when the traits of groups that systematically out-reproduce competing groups eventually come to characterize the species.

Comment author: PhilGoetz 02 November 2010 08:07:12PM 2 points [-]

In the context of biology or ecology, a "population" is defined as being a collection of organisms of the same species

A species is a collection of organisms of the same species.

Comment author: wedrifid 02 November 2010 08:21:37PM 3 points [-]

A family is a collection of organisms of the same species (although I have my doubts about that aunt...)

Your point is not clear to me.

Comment author: timtyler 02 November 2010 09:10:06PM 1 point [-]

If you define a species as the set of all such organisms, then a "population" is a subset of that set.

Comment author: PhilGoetz 03 November 2010 02:56:25AM 1 point [-]

And a set is a subset of itself.

Comment author: timtyler 03 November 2010 06:56:19AM 2 points [-]

I don't really see where you are going with this. Yes, all the members of a species could qualify as being a "population" - expecially if they all lived in the same place.

However, that doesn't make species selection into a special case of group selection under the Wikipedia definition.