PhilGoetz comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 5 - Less Wrong

6 Post author: NihilCredo 02 November 2010 06:57PM

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Comment author: PhilGoetz 07 November 2010 09:26:55PM *  2 points [-]

I'm enjoying the story; but am bothered by this passage:

The Dementors were coming.

"My Lord, you - you should not risk yourself for me - take back your Cloak -"

"Be silent, fool," hissed an angry voice. "When I decide to sacrifice you I will tell you so."

She's got a valid point, said Slytherin. You shouldn't risk yourself for her, there's no way her life is as valuable as yours.

For an instant Harry considered sacrificing Bellatrix to save himself -

Bella's life isn't just less valuable than Harry's. Her life has a large negative value. Harry should be trying to prevent her escape. This righteous, humble talk about why Harry can't save himself instead of her is exactly the sort of thing that makes me so exasperated with comic-book superheroes; and just the sort of thing I was hoping the Methods of Rationality would expose, or at least avoid.

It does work out better than if Harry had tried to save himself - but, it's a story. This story is remarkable partly because it uses a rational protagonist; but it could also be remarkable for making more concessions to reality than most stories. This is a case where it failed to make a concession.

Comment author: PhilGoetz 07 November 2010 09:46:14PM *  3 points [-]

On a related note,

If you think your own life is valuable enough that you're not willing to take on an eighty percent probability of dying in order to protect all the prisoners in Azkaban, his Slytherin side observed, there's no way you can justify taking a twenty percent risk to your life to save Bellatrix and Professor Quirrell. The math doesn't add up, you can't be assigning consistent utilities over outcomes here.

The logical side of him noted that Slytherin had just won the argument.

It seems the author is flat-out telling us that Harry is deliberately acting irrational, and commends him for it. Curious.

Comment author: Vaniver 08 November 2010 01:02:31AM *  2 points [-]

It seems the author is flat-out telling us that Harry is deliberately acting irrational, and commends him for it. Curious.

The math does add up, though: Quirrell is at least four times more important than all of Azkaban put together. It's like how, in my mind, at least 10% of the loss caused by the 16-40k guillotine deaths in the French Revolution is from the early death of Lavoisier.

It's pretty clear from the times it's come up that Harry's utilitarianism is either mistaken or too unnatural to actually guide his behavior- and so this just seems like more evidence of that.

Comment author: NihilCredo 08 November 2010 12:41:35AM 2 points [-]

Are you sure? In this fic, Slytherin isn't always bad.

Comment author: PhilGoetz 08 November 2010 12:12:19AM 0 points [-]

Perhaps the story will have a "Harry's fall from rationality" arc?