Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 5

NihilCredo

- This thread has run its course. You will find newer threads in the discussion section.

Another discussion thread - the fourth - has reached the (arbitrary?) 500 comments threshold, so it's time for a new thread for Eliezer Yudkowsky's widely-praised Harry Potter fanfic.

Most of the paratext and fan-made resources are listed on Mr. LessWrong's author page. There is also AdeleneDawner's collection of most of the previously-published Author's Notes.

Older threads: one, two, three, four. By tag.

Newer threads are in the Discussion section, starting from Part 6.

Spoiler policy as suggested by Unnamed and approved by Eliezer, me, and at least three other upmodders:

You do not need to rot13 anything about HP:MoR or the original Harry Potter series unless you are posting insider information from Eliezer Yudkowsky which is not supposed to be publicly available (which includes public statements by Eliezer that have been retracted).

If there is evidence for X in MOR and/or canon then it's fine to post about X without rot13, even if you also have heard privately from Eliezer that X is true. But you should not post that "Eliezer said X is true" unless you use rot13.

It would also be quite sensible and welcome to continue the practice of declaring at the top of your post which chapters you are about to discuss, especially for newly-published ones, so that people who haven't yet seen them can stop reading in time.

- This thread has run its course. You will find newer threads in the discussion section.

Another discussion thread - the fourth - has reached the (arbitrary?) 500 comments threshold, so it's time for a new thread for Eliezer Yudkowsky's widely-praised Harry Potter fanfic.

Most of the paratext and fan-made resources are listed on Mr. LessWrong's author page. There is also AdeleneDawner's collection of most of the previously-published Author's Notes.

Older threads: one, two, three, four. By tag.

Newer threads are in the Discussion section, starting from Part 6.

Spoiler policy as suggested by Unnamed and approved by Eliezer, me, and at least three other upmodders:

You do not need to rot13 anything about HP:MoR or the original Harry Potter series unless you are posting insider information from Eliezer Yudkowsky which is not supposed to be publicly available (which includes public statements by Eliezer that have been retracted).

If there is evidence for X in MOR and/or canon then it's fine to post about X without rot13, even if you also have heard privately from Eliezer that X is true. But you should not post that "Eliezer said X is true" unless you use rot13.

but that can't be how it appears to the people on the inside.

Potential nightmare fuel ahead. ROT13'd for your sanity.

Jung vg ybbxf yvxr sebz vafvqr: Uneel jvyy bcra gur cncre, svaq gjb ahzoref gung qba'g zhygvcyl gb gur cevzr, naq nggrzcg gb pnhfr n cnenqbk ol fraqvat onpx n qvssrerag cvrpr bs vasbezngvba.

Abj, Uneel vf qrafr ng gvzrf. Ur xarj guvf jnf 'hafgnoyr' nppbeqvat gb ZpTbantnyy, gung vg jnf nyy cerpnyphyngrq naq gung lbh pna'g punatr nal vasbezngvba. Ur fghqvrq sbe bar ubhe naq gura sbyybjrq guebhtu jvgu uvf pbhefr bs npgvba, naq bapr ur unf zvffrq uvf nofbyhgr ynfg punapr ng punatvat gur cncre, Uneel naq guvf cnegvphyne ybbc bs gur havirefr oyvffshyyl prnfr gb unir rire rkvfgrq, qhr gb pbagnvavat n cnenqbk.

Abj, Uneel vf n fzneg xvq. Ur cebonoyl unf fbzr vqrn bs ubj dhnaghz vzzbegnyvgl jbexf, fb ur rkcrpgf gb or va gur fgnoyr ybbc gunaxf gb "cnenqbk vzzbegnyvgl". Qhevat uvf fghqlvat, ur nofrag-zvaqrqyl erzrzoref naq zhygvcyvrf gur gjb arj ahzoref ur jebgr qbja, naq frrf gung gurl, gbb, nera'g gur snpgbef bs gur cevzr. Ur ortvaf gb jbeel. Vs, rira jvgu gur cbjre bs vzzbegnyvgl ba uvf fvqr, ur vf fgvyy va na hafgnoyr ybbc, gung zhfg zrna gurer ner bayl hafgnoyr ybbcf. Ur vafgnagyl ertergf abg gevcyr-purpxvat Greel'f jbex jvgu fbzrbar ryfr! Jung vs Greel unf n flfgrzvp synj va uvf zhygvcyvpngvba fxvyyf? Ol erylvat fbyryl ba Greel, ur unf dhvgr cbffvoyl pnhfrq uvzfrys gb jvax bhg bs rkvfgrapr ragveryl, genccvat rirel irefvba bs uvzfrys va na hafgnoyr ybbc gung vf irel fubegyl nobhg gb raq. CBGGRE, LBH CEVPX!

Abj, Uneel vf n ernyyl fzneg xvq. Ur jvyy nyzbfg pregnvayl or guvaxvat nobhg nyy gur vasbezngvba ur xabjf nobhg Gvzrghearef. Vg jba'g gnxr zhpu vqyr gubhtug sbe gur zrzbel

"juvpu jbhyq cerggl zhpu QRYRGR NYY GUR CRBCYR NSSRPGRQ" - "Bu, lbh pna'g punatr gvzr!"

gb pbaarpg gb gur ernfbavat oruvaq

Vs lbh qvq pbzzvg gur cresrpg pevzr, abobql jbhyq rire svaq bhg - fb ubj pbhyq nalbar cbffvoyl xabj gung gurer jrera'g cresrpg pevzrf?

naq vg jvyy bpphe gb uvz gung lbh pna qryrgr nyy gur crbcyr nssrpgrq, lbh pna punatr gvzr, vg'f whfg gung abobql rire svaqf gung bhg, orpnhfr gurl unir nyy orra yvivat va n fgnoyr ybbc. Naguebcvp ovnf, ohg abg va gur jnl ur rkcrpgrq. Boivbhfyl, gur punaprf bs cebqhpvat n fgnoyr ybbc va bar tb ner ybj, ohg n ybat frevrf bs urnqf qbrfa'g zrna gur arkg bar pna'g or gnvyf. Uneel xabjf gung.

Naq abj ur xabjf gung uvf sbezvqnoyr vagryyrpg jnf nccyvrq gb ratvarrevat n fvghngvba gung sbeprf Gvzr vagb vafgnovyvgl, naq va qbvat fb dhvgr cbffvoyl qrfgeblf gur jubyr havirefr, fgnoyr naq hafgnoyr ybbcf or qnzarq. Fb abj ur unf bhgjvg uvf cerivbhf frys. Ur pna'g punatr gur cncre onpx gb gur bevtvany ahzoref, orpnhfr gura gur arkg Uneel gb pbzr nybat jbhyq punatr vg, naq vg jnf bayl enaqbz svevat bs arhebaf gung cebqhprq gung cnegvphyne pbaarpgvba, gur Gvzrgheare zvtug abg unir gur erfbyhgvba gb cebqhpr gur rknpg fnzr cnggrea, gur arkg Uneel zvtug abg ernyvfr ur vf nobhg gb qrfgebl nyy bs rkvfgrapr -

Znal irefvbaf bs Uneel ernyvfr guvf, naq senagvpnyyl frg nobhg nggrzcgvat gb snpgbe gur cevzr ol unaq va haqre na ubhe, jvgu gur jubyr bs rkvfgrapr evqvat ba vg, gvzr vf ehaavat qbja, ur'f fpevooyvat znqyl, ur'f abg tbvat gb znxr vg, ur'f qrfgeblrq gur ragver havirefr!-

Bayl n srj irefvbaf bs Uneel jbhyq ernyvfr, ng fbzr cbvag qhevat gur znq fpenzoyr gb zhygvcyl snfgre, gung "QB ABG ZRFF JVGU GVZR" jbhyq jbex. Gurfr irefvbaf jbhyq jevgr gung qbja, gura fcraq gur erfg bs gur gvzr fcrphyngvat ba ubj znal oenapurf bs uvzfrys qba'g guvax bs gur "QB ABG ZRFF JVGU GVZR" zrffntr.

Bayl bar irefvba bs Uneel jbhyq trg gur "QB ABG ZRFF JVGU GVZR" zrffntr gb ortva jvgu. Ur zvtug guvax vg jnf gur fpnevrfg rkcrevzragny erfhyg va uvfgbel, ohg ur'f abg rira pybfr. Rirel bgure irefvba bs uvz jbhyq cbvag bhg gung gurve erfhyg vf beqref bs zntavghqrf zber greevslvat.

That's a great description, but it's not from the inside of reality. I mean, if I experience something (such as multiplying two numbers and getting the wrong answer), then it exists, pretty much by definition. (Even if I'm hallucinating, the hallucination exists.) To some extent, this is a matter of semantics, but if my usage of ‘exists’, ‘real’, etc are to match ordinary language, then they have to come out this way. Within the fictional story, I use the viewpoint character instead of myself, so if Harry experiences something (while he's the viewpoint... (read more)

-1MartinB15y

Oh boy.

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Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 5

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Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 5

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