timtyler comments on The Curve of Capability - Less Wrong

18 Post author: rwallace 04 November 2010 08:22PM

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Comment author: timtyler 06 November 2010 07:02:57AM *  4 points [-]

The ELO rating scheme is calculated on a logistic curve - and so includes an exponent - see details here. It gets harder to climb up the ratings the higher you get.

It's the same with traditional go kyu/dan ratings - 9 kyu to 8 kyu is easy, 8 dan to 9 dan is very difficult.

Comment author: Perplexed 06 November 2010 02:39:27PM 2 points [-]

Actually, the argument could be turned around. A 5 kyu player can give a 9 kyu player a 4 stone handicap and still have a good chance of winning. A 9 dan, offering a 4 stone handicap to a 5 dan, will be crushed.

By this metric, the distance between levels becomes smaller at the higher levels of skill.

It is unclear whether odds of winning, log odds of winning, number of handicap stones required to equalize odds of winning, or number of komi points required to equalize odds of winning ought to be the metric of relative skill.

Comment author: timtyler 06 June 2011 07:38:39PM 0 points [-]

By this metric, the distance between levels becomes smaller at the higher levels of skill.

Probably not by very much. One of the main motivations behind the grading system is to allow people of different grades to easily calculate the handicap needed to produce a fair game - e.g. see here:

Skill in the traditional board game Go is measured by a number of different national, regional and online ranking and rating systems. Traditionally, go rankings have been measured using a system of dan and kyu ranks. Especially in amateur play, these ranks facilitate the handicapping system, with a difference of one rank roughly corresponding to one free move at the beginning of the game.

You may be right that the system is flawed - but I don't think it is hugely flawed.

Comment author: skepsci 29 February 2012 07:19:41AM 0 points [-]

The difference is between amateur and professional ratings. Amateur dan ratings, just like kyu ratings, are designed so that a difference of n ranks corresponds to suitability of a n-stone handicap, but pro dan ratings are more bunched together.

See Wikipedia:Go pro.

Comment author: wedrifid 06 November 2010 07:06:42AM 0 points [-]

Does this suggest anything except that the scale mostly useless at the top end?

Comment author: timtyler 06 November 2010 07:10:59AM *  2 points [-]

The idea in the post was:

Computer Go is now on the same curve of capability as computer chess: whether measured on the ELO or the kyu/dan scale, each doubling of power gives a roughly constant rating improvement.

My observation is that ELO ratings are calculated on a logistic curve - and so contain a "hidden" exponent - so the "constant rating improvement" should be taken with a pinch of salt.

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