NancyLebovitz comments on The danger of living a story - Singularity Tropes - Less Wrong

23 Post author: patrissimo 14 November 2010 10:39PM

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Comment author: NancyLebovitz 15 November 2010 02:12:41AM *  19 points [-]

Possible dangers of thinking you're living in a story:

Believing that if you're right and/or virtuous, you're going to win

Underestimating the power and usefulness of large organizations

Believing that what you're doing is the main story.

Of course, this is assuming that the story you think you're in is a certain kind of popular fiction.

If you thought that you were living in a realistic/naturalistic story, you'd be underestimating your chance of making a significant difference. I have no idea what thinking you were living in a tragedy would do to your presuppositions.

After Douglas Adams' death, I read a fair number of tributes which said his books had a large emotional effect-- people absorbed the attitude of expecting things to be absurd. I don't know what effect that's had on their lives.

Comment author: Nick_Tarleton 15 November 2010 04:06:32AM *  18 points [-]

More:

  • Overestimating the agency of everyone and everything
  • Role-playing instead of trying to achieve goals
  • Expecting too clean a distinction between protagonists and antagonists
  • Underestimating the number, and overestimating the cohesiveness, of protagonists
  • Overly anticipating unlikely but dramatic events

(Most of these are more accurately described as "errors almost everyone makes all the time" than "dangers of thinking you're in a story", but thinking of them that way seems pretty useful for identifying them.)

Comment author: David_Gerard 15 November 2010 08:38:58AM *  9 points [-]

Edit: After reading this comment, I'll amend that to "Assuming villainy is the usual explanation for apparent bad behaviour."

Comment author: Peter_de_Blanc 17 November 2010 09:53:44AM 2 points [-]

horrifyingly deep and complex behaviour generated by perfectly normal blithering stupidity

So what is villainy, if it's not that?

Comment author: David_Gerard 17 November 2010 02:00:30PM -1 points [-]

They mean well, rather than being out to deliberately fuck you up.

Comment author: patrissimo 16 November 2010 12:22:36AM 3 points [-]

This is so common as to be an adage: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razor)

Comment author: NihilCredo 15 November 2010 03:55:00AM *  10 points [-]

If you thought that you were living in a realistic/naturalistic story, you'd be underestimating your chance of making a significant difference. I have no idea what thinking you were living in a tragedy would do to your presuppositions.

I don't know if you have peasant ancestry, especially peasants living in a non- or partially-democratic society; I do, and when I talked to my grandparents and granduncles, as a young boy raised on hero stories and supported by his family, I was struck by how tremendously fatalistic their outlook on life was. While they worked hard and smart, and aimed at steadily improving their lot in life (and, eventually, succeeded - my father was able to get an engineering degree), the idea that they were and would always be part of the background scenery of history was very fixed in their mind; no matter how proud they were of their debt-free house and comfortable retirement money, they never even considered that it might be possible for them to be concerned about matters beyond their family's immediate needs - that was "gentlemen's stuff", while they were but "poor people".

To cut short, my point is that that type of literature is called "Realism" or "Naturalism" for a reason - because to a significant degree, and especially when compared with Romantic literature, that was actually how nineteenth-century peasants thought and lived (and not just peasants, I believe - Joseph Roth's Radetzkymarsch deals with the middle class but it's one of the most depressing novels I've ever read). The answer to your question is in those books themselves.

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 15 November 2010 09:37:35AM 4 points [-]

That's interesting. My background is various Russian and eastern European Jewish, and the default assumption seems to be that you can build a decent life, but playing on the larger stage just isn't thought of. It's not even viewed as "gentlemen's stuff", it's just a blank spot.

If you don't mind, I'll post your comment above to my livejournal-- at this point, I'd like to get more people's take on their family culture and ambition.

Comment author: NihilCredo 15 November 2010 05:03:40PM 2 points [-]

Sure, no problem.