wnoise comments on What I've learned from Less Wrong - Less Wrong

79 Post author: Louie 20 November 2010 12:47PM

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Comment author: topynate 21 November 2010 11:41:49PM *  0 points [-]

OK, the example linked is defective, in that there are two different operations that get the same result when the machine reverses its x-axis measurement. The first is the time-reversal of the measurement operation; the second is the recreation of the state created by measurement 1. You seem to be saying that the Copenhagenite would assume the latter.

Here is a modification of the experiment that tests the idea of collapse more severely. Instead of preparing an electron in a |+z> or |-z> state, I prepare an entangled pair of electrons with opposite z-axis spin (a spin anti-correlated pair). I now give one electron to the machine intelligence, which measures its spin in the x-axis, and then applies the time-reversal of the measurement, restoring the electron's original state and erasing its memory of the x-axis state. It then passes the electron back to me, and I measure the two electrons' z-axis spins.

If the machine intelligence's measurement had caused a collapse, the anti-correlation would be erased. But in fact everything we know about quantum mechanics says that the electrons should remain anti-correlated.

Comment author: Vaniver 22 November 2010 12:14:35AM 0 points [-]

I now give one electron to the machine intelligence, which measures its spin in the x-axis, and then applies the time-reversal of the measurement, restoring the electron's original state and erasing its memory of the x-axis state.

I don't see why the Copenhagenite can't make the exact same objection here. Perhaps it would be clearer if you gave an example of how one would perform the time reversal of a measurement? If I have a z spin up electron, and I put it through a Stern-Gerlach device and find it is now a x spin up electron, how do I go back to a z spin up electron?

Comment author: wnoise 22 November 2010 01:33:58AM 0 points [-]

As stated you can't. In the MWI picture, you are split into two one who has measured it x+, the other x-. Both must send it back to have it recohere, and they must at the same time erase their measurement of which way it went -- really anything that distinguishes those two branches. They can record the fact that they did measure it, as this is the same in the two branches.

A person obviously can't just "forget", and will at best leak information into the environment, encoded as correlations in the noise of heat. A (reversible) computer, on the other hand, works quite well for doing this.