patrissimo comments on What I've learned from Less Wrong - Less Wrong

79 Post author: Louie 20 November 2010 12:47PM

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Comment author: Vladimir_Nesov 20 November 2010 07:59:10PM *  19 points [-]

I wonder if the main reason for why a post like Yvain's is upvoted is not because it is great but because everyone who reads it instantly agrees. Of course it is great in the sense that it sums up the issue in a very clear and concise manner. But has it really changed your mind?

That's how great arguments work: you agree with every step (and after a while you start believing things you didn't originally). The progress is made by putting such arguments into words, to be followed by other people faster and more reliably than they were arrived at, even if arriving at them is in some contexts almost inevitable.

Additionally, clarity offered by a carefully thought-through exposition isn't something to expect without a targeted effort. This clarity can well serve as the enabling factor for making the next step.

Comment author: patrissimo 15 December 2010 05:03:44AM 4 points [-]

"That's how great arguments work: you agree with every step (and after a while you start believing things you didn't originally)."

Also how great propaganda works.

If you are going to describe a "great argument" I think you need to put more emphasis on it being tied to the truth rather than being agreeable. I would say truly great arguments tend not to be agreeable, b/c the real world is so complex that descriptions without lots of nuance and caveats are pretty much always wrong. Whereas simplicity is highly appealing and has a low cognitive processing cost.

Comment author: shokwave 15 December 2010 06:54:04AM 2 points [-]

put more emphasis on it being tied to the truth rather than being agreeable.

Oh. I only agree with argument steps that are truthful.