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katydee comments on What I've learned from Less Wrong - Less Wrong
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Comments (232)
Very Bad Deaths has a fair amount of torture-porn and also contains extended descriptions of the effects of an extraordinarily painful medical condition.
Night of Power made me realize Robinson was off the rails because his didactic tone and self-righteous presentation continued even when he was describing horrible and outrageous actions, cold-blooded murders on the parts of the protagonists, etc. Essentially, it was the book that made me stop trusting Robinson as an author, since it demonstrated his ability to justify (and even advocate for) ridiculous excesses, leading me to evaluate the rest of his work much more critically.
That makes me want to read Very Bad Deaths very much, which was probably not your intended effect.
Are you sure you're not making the mistake of confusing a character's beliefs with the authors?
As far as the murders, have you ever seen an action movie?
please give me more details on this. I take it you're not a rational anarchist and don't support Michael's revolution? What ridiculous excesses?
I'm just very surprised that you think it's didactic or self-righteous; I didn't see it that way at all.
Just curious, have you read Heinlein's "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress"? Night of Power is full of allusions to it and it may not make as much sense if you haven't.
Oh no, I thought it was quite good, but it's not really for the weak of stomach. One of the main characters is also basically Spider Robinson himself, so if that's not your cup of tea I would suggest looking elsewhere-- personally, though, I did find it quite entertaining.
No-- in fact I'm nearly positive that I am making that mistake, but I find it comparatively hard to not make given Robinson's general style. The whole thing just squicks me out.
I would also argue that, for much of Robinson's work, the characters' beliefs are those of the author (and indeed the characters themselves are essentially the author)-- though I don't think Night of Power suffers from this.
Certainly I have. Robinson has always struck me as sort of a bargain-basement Heinlein.
I'm trying to understand exactly what squicks you, and I'm not doing a very good job... the Revolution in Night of Power was pretty peaceful as revolutions go.
Gur cneg jurer gur znva punenpgref zheqre n pncgvir (be pncgvirf? Vg'f orra n juvyr) ol fcenlvat tyhr vagb gurve abfr/zbhgu naq pnhfvat gurz gb nfculkvngr vf n tbbq rknzcyr bs jung V sbhaq fdhvpxl nobhg gung obbx.
Jura gurl'er nobhg gb encr Wraavsre? Ur qrfreirf gung naq vg'f frys-qrsrafr
Ertneqyrff bs jurgure fbzrbar "qrfreirf vg," zheqrevat pncgvirf va tehrfbzr naq rkpehpvngvat znaaref vf orlbaq gur cnyr. Gung'f nyfb abg frys-qrsrafr ol nal fgnaqneq gung V xabj bs, fvapr gur crefba va dhrfgvba jnf nyernql haqre gurve pbageby.
Ok, but... wouldn't the same objection apply to virtually any action/adventure movie or novel? Kick Ass, all the Die Hard movies, anything Tarantino, James Bond, Robert Ludlum's Bourne Identity novels and movies, et cetera. They all have similar violent scenes.
I can't think of any point in Die Hard where John McClane kills prisoners in cold blood (in fact, there are two times where he almost dies because he tries to arrest terrorists instead of just shooting them). And I do consider all such scenes objectionable-- for instance, in Serenity, when Zny fubbgf gur fheivivat Nyyvnapr thl sebz gur fuvc gung qrfgeblrq Obbx'f frggyrzrag, or when gur Bcrengvir fnlf ur vf hanezrq, fb Zny whfg chyyf n tha naq fubbgf uvz, I had the same squicky reaction.
See, I liked that scene. Gur Bcrengvir jnf gelvat gb pngpu crbcyr haqre Zny'f cebgrpgvba fb gurl pbhyq or neerfgrq naq gbegherq be rkrphgrq. Ur jnf jvyyvat gb xvyy Zny naq rirelbar ryfr ur pnerq nobhg va beqre gb qb fb. Pngpuvat uvz bss thneq naq xvyyvat uvz jbhyq unir fnirq n ybg bs yvirf, rira vs vg jnfa'g va nal jnl snve. Squicky? Sure. Actually the wrong thing to do? Not so much.
Which scenes are you saying are objectionable? The ones where MClane puts the lives of himself and all those he is trying to protect in danger by not shooting terrorists when he should have? Those squick me out. Utter negligence when so many lives are at stake.
Have you ever read a novel and gotten an insistent background vibe from it that says "something isn't quite right with the person who wrote this"? I got this pretty strong from John C. Wright's The Golden Age trilogy, even though I started reading it knowing next to nothing about Wright.
This doesn't seem very consistent though. Most people I've talked with seem to like The Golden Age a lot.
I get this a lot from A Song of Ice and Fire.
Robinson's fiction has a sadistic streak (very bad things happening to the unattractive characters) that Heinlein's doesn't. One of the later Callahan's novels has a plot turn which indicates that Robinson had some idea that this was problematic.
In any case, I hope you read some Robinson and let us know what you think.
I love what I have read. I've only read a few of his novels though. Which one has that plot turn and what's the plot turn?
It was a Callahan's novel which came out in the past ten years or so. It might have been Callahan's Key.
Wnxr, gur ivrjcbvag punenpgre, chavfurf na vashevngvat naq culfvpnyyl htyl punenpgre engure frireryl (snvag zrzbel fhttrfgf yvgrenyyl qhzcvat fuvg ba ure). Xnezn rafhrf.
I'm really sorry, but I don't remember the details.
Thanks... I'm still going through the most recent Callahan novels. Jake Stonebender does kinda have a temper.
I checked with a friend who's a Robinson fan. It was Callahan's Key, and it was n yvgre bs hevar.