gerg comments on Rationality Quotes: December 2010 - Less Wrong

6 Post author: Tiiba 03 December 2010 03:23AM

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Comment author: Peter_de_Blanc 03 December 2010 10:48:22AM 6 points [-]

I felt a desire to argue against this quote, but of course a better idea would be to ask what it means.

I'm guessing that "practice" means "the way people are solving this problem now," while "theory" means "the study of what makes a problem-solving method good."

If theorists invent some method that they think is good, but which has already been rejected by practitioners, then I would guess that the theorists have a wrong notion of "good," and they should update their theory on the evidence. If the theorists invent a new method, then there is a chance that it is an improvement, and it may catch on.

Comment author: gerg 03 December 2010 04:21:35PM 6 points [-]

My first reading of this quote was essentially "the map loses to the terrain". I interpreted "theory" as "our beliefs" and "practice" as "reality".

Comment author: Peter_de_Blanc 03 December 2010 09:45:03PM 1 point [-]

If your beliefs are defeated whenever they clash with reality, then you have attained a mastery of rationality that very few humans achieve. Torvalds' quote looks to me like an "is" statement rather than an "ought" statement, so I can't agree with your interpretation.

Comment author: David_Gerard 03 December 2010 10:48:19PM 0 points [-]

He's talking about the status of the code in question in his Linux tree, the one everyone in the world pulls from, so in that context he does in fact have the power to make his opinions reality ...

Comment author: Peter_de_Blanc 04 December 2010 09:49:39AM 1 point [-]

According to gerg's interpretation, you're saying that Torvalds' theory wins against practice, which contradicts Torvalds' statement.

Comment author: DSimon 06 December 2010 02:18:37PM 2 points [-]

I don't think that quite jives. The situation seems to be the opposite: Torvalds' practice (the Linux code base, and its quite healthy community of contributors and users, who would be annoyed if ext4 programs stopped working suddenly) is winning against theory (the notion that the API policy of the Linux kernel should be revised more in favor of elegance over compatibility).

Comment author: Peter_de_Blanc 06 December 2010 09:05:57PM 1 point [-]

I've been assuming that this subthread is about gerg's interpretation. Are you claiming that interpretation is correct, and offering some clarification, or are you just offering a different interpretation?

Comment author: DSimon 07 December 2010 06:03:07PM 0 points [-]

The former. Gerg's interpretation is about the map and the terrain, and it seems to me that "the actual codebase in its practical usage" associates closely with "the terrain", while "ideas/predictions about what would make the API more elegant" associates closely with "the map".

Tovalds doesn't have direct access to the reality of his users, but he does have direct access to the code they use.

Comment author: gerg 09 December 2010 02:48:28AM 0 points [-]

Interesting nuance. You have taken "loses" to mean "defeated", presumably leading to "and therefore updated"; I agree that this is by no means an automatic process. But I took "loses" to mean "is less accurate" (which of course makes my interpretation more tautological).