Eugine_Nier comments on Unpacking the Concept of "Blackmail" - Less Wrong

25 Post author: Vladimir_Nesov 10 December 2010 12:53AM

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Comment author: FAWS 10 December 2010 04:07:09AM *  4 points [-]

Agent 1 negotiates with agent 2. Agent 1 can take option A or B, while agent 2 can take option C or D. Agent 1 communicates that they will take option A if agent 2 takes option C and will take option B if agent 2 takes option D.

If utilities are such that for

  • agent 1: A > B, C < D, A+C < B + D

and for

  • agent 2: A < B, C > D, A+C < B + D

or

  • agent 1: A < B, C > D, A+C > B + D
  • agent 2: A > B, C < D, A+C > B + D

this is an offer.

If

  • agent 1: A < B, C < D, A+C < B + D
  • agent 2: A < B, C > D, A+C < B + D

or

  • agent 1: A > B, C > D, A+C > B + D
  • agent 2: A > B, C < D, A+C > B + D

this is blackmail by agent 1.

If

  • agent 1: A > B, C < D, A+C < B + D
  • agent 2: A < B, C < D, A+C < B + D

or

  • agent 1: A < B, C > D, A+C > B + D
  • agent 2: A > B, C > D, A+C > B + D

this is agent 1 giving in to agent 2's blackmail.

I don't think I mentioned anything about any "default" anywhere?

(Unless I overlooked something in the other cases there is either no reason to negotiate, no prospect of success in negotiating or at least one party acting irrationally. It is implicitly assumed that preferences between combinations of the options only depend on the preferences between the individual options. )

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 10 December 2010 05:54:58AM 4 points [-]

Notice that under this definition punishing someone for a crime is a form of blackmail.

Comment author: FAWS 10 December 2010 06:18:19AM 3 points [-]

I'm not sure that's a problem.

Or maybe: Change blackmail in the above to threat, and define blackmail as a threat not legitimized by social conventions.

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 10 December 2010 06:23:33AM 3 points [-]

Well, at least we've unpacked the concept of "default" into the concept of social conventions.

Comment author: HughRistik 10 December 2010 08:54:33PM 1 point [-]

Or into a concept of ethics. Blackmail involves a threat of unethical punishment.

Comment author: rwallace 10 December 2010 11:36:45AM 0 points [-]

I think we can do better than that. In cases where the law is morally justified, punishing someone for a crime is retaliation. I think part of the intent of the concept of blackmail is that the threatened harm be unprovoked.