DanielVarga comments on Confidence levels inside and outside an argument - Less Wrong

129 Post author: Yvain 16 December 2010 03:06AM

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Comment author: JGWeissman 16 December 2010 06:33:18AM 4 points [-]

It might help to work an example.

Suppose we are interested in an event B with prior probability P(B) = 1/2 which is prior log odds L(B) = 0, and have observed evidence E which is worth 1 bit, so L(B|E) = 1 and P(B|E) = 2/3 ~= .67. But if we are meta uncertain of the strength of evidence E such that we assign probability 1/2 that it is worth 0 bits, and probability 1/2 that it is worth 2 bits, then the expected log odds is EL(B|E) = 1, but the expected probability EP(B|E) = (1/2)*(1/2) + (1/2)*(4/5) = (.5 + .8)/2 = .65, decreasing towards 1/2 from P(B|E) ~= .67.

But what if instead the prior probability was P(B) = 1/5, or L(B) = -2. Then, with the same evidence with the same meta uncertainty, EL(B|E) = L(B|E) = -1, P(B|E) = 1/3 ~= .33, and EP(B|E) = .35, this time increasing towards 1/2.

Note this did not even require meta uncertainty over the prior, only the uncertainty over the total posterior log-odds is important. Also note that even though uncertainty moves the expected probability towards 1/2, it does not move the expected log-odds towards 0.

Comment author: DanielVarga 16 December 2010 02:27:33PM *  2 points [-]

Note that your observation does not generalize to more complex logodds-distributions. Here is a simple counterexample:

Let's say that L(B|E)=1+x with chance 2/3, and L(B|E)=1-2x with chance 1/3. It still holds that EL(B|E)=1. But the expected probability EP(B|E) is now not a monotone function of x. It has a global minimum at x=2.

  • x EP(B|E)
  • 0 0.66666666666666663
  • 1 0.64444444444444438
  • 2 0.62962962962962954
  • 3 0.63755199049316691
  • 4 0.64904862579281186
  • 5 0.65706002898985361
Comment author: JGWeissman 16 December 2010 06:47:33PM 2 points [-]

Indeed. It looks like the effect I described occurs when the meta uncertainty is over a small range of log-odds values relative to the posterior log-odds, and there is another effect that could produce arbitrary expected probabilities given the right distribution over an arbitrarily large range of values. For any probability p, let L(B|E) = average + (1-p)*x with probability p and L(B|E) = average - p*x with probability (1-p), and then the limit of the expected probability as x approaches infinity is p.

It has a global minimum at x=2.

I notice that this is where |1 + x| = |1 - 2x|. That might be interesting to look into.

(Possible more rigorous and explicit math to follow when I can focus on it more)

Comment author: GuySrinivasan 17 December 2010 04:50:20AM 1 point [-]

I let L(B|E) be uniform from x-s/2 to x+s/2 and got that P(B|E) = where A is the odds if L(B|E)=x. In the limit as s goes to infinity, it looks like the interesting pieces are a term that's the log of the prior probability dropping off as s grows linearly, plus a term that eventually looks like (1/s)*ln(e^(s/2))=1/2 which means we approach 1/2.