Alexandros comments on Folk grammar and morality - Less Wrong

20 Post author: Emile 17 December 2010 09:20PM

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Comment author: Emile 17 December 2010 10:42:39PM 0 points [-]

Agreed, what we learn as "grammar" in school doesn't correspond to the real rules of the language we use - either because the "rules" taught are "wrong" (like "not splitting infinitives"), or they're teaching a different language from the one you learned at home - in fact, I suspect this last one is the main reason schools feature prominently teaching something that people learn naturally : it's part of an effort from central governments to impose a common language to the whole nation, instead of the local dialects that existed before widespread schooling. Teaching grammar rules explicitly makes sense if you're teaching a second language (which was the case for Welsh kids learning English, or Basque kids learning French).

here's a linguist writing about something similar:

The fact is that almost everything most educated Americans believe about English grammar is wrong. In part this is because of misconceptions concerning the facts. In part it is because hopeless descriptive classifications and antiquated theoretical assumptions doom all discussion to failure. Amazingly, almost nothing has changed in over a hundred years.

... though his conclusion seems to be "teach the correct rules of grammar at school", whereas mine is more "what's the point? People figure out the rules independently of what factoids they're forced to memorize in school".

Comment author: Alexandros 17 December 2010 10:47:36PM 0 points [-]

I don't think the conclusion is "teach the correct rules of grammar at school". The people at Language Log are thoroughly descriptivist as I suspect is most of modern linguistics.

Comment author: Sniffnoy 17 December 2010 11:00:29PM 5 points [-]

That's not a contradiction. "Teach the correct rules of grammar at school" doesn't mean "teach people how to speak properly according to some prescriptive standard", it means "teach people (something approximating) the actual syntax of the English language so they can discuss it sensibly and understand something of what is actually happening when they put sentences together". (As opposed to the currently commonly taught "traditional grammar" which attempts to describe English but just gets it wrong.)

Comment author: Emile 17 December 2010 10:55:28PM 4 points [-]

I agree they're descriptivist; by "the correct rules" I meant "the rules that govern the way people actually speak" (in which case "teaching the rules" would be more "showing people what the rules are" and not "instructing people which rules they should follow", the same way a biology class on digestion doesn't tell people how to digest.)

But then I haven't done an in-depth research on the education policy advocated on Language Log.