Eugine_Nier comments on Folk grammar and morality - Less Wrong

20 Post author: Emile 17 December 2010 09:20PM

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Comment author: Costanza 17 December 2010 10:06:15PM *  4 points [-]

My impression is that people tend to be exposed to grammar early on in school, in the form of a lot of arbitrary-seeming rules, which do not necessarily correspond with the colloquial spoken language. In English class in elementary and high school, I was taught never to split an infinitive (maybe I should say, "to never split an infinitive") and that the verb "to be" takes the nominative -- "that is I" rather than "that's me." Later, I learned that serious academic grammar scholars tend not spend their time issuing or enforcing random rules, but rather mostly observe and analyze how people use grammar -- regional and temporal shifts in the way the language is used. In that sense, language is value-neutral. Neither French nor English is "better" than the other in a general sense, French is not just degenerate Latin, Shakespeare and Chaucer and the author of Beowulf all use the grammar of English appropriate to their times. Valley-girl English and Ebonics and West Virginia dialect are all equally valid and internally consistent, according to this approach.

Can this same analysis be applied to moral codes? If it can, even in principle, then we have some problems. As I understand it, "morality" is all about values. I think EY has considered this issue seriously, and has alluded to it in Three Worlds Collide.

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 17 December 2010 10:48:56PM 5 points [-]

Valley-girl English and Ebonics and West Virginia dialect are all equally valid and internally consistent, according to this approach.

There is also value in maintaining a common standard. Try speaking Ebonics outside black ghettos and besides the status hit, people will have a hard time understanding you.

Comment author: Tenek 20 December 2010 03:53:57PM 0 points [-]

Is there any dialect that is readily understandable to everyone who speaks English?

Comment author: TobyBartels 22 December 2010 08:14:54PM 1 point [-]

Why not the Received Pronunciation that's promoted (and used to be required) on the BBC? Everybody's heard it, even in the U.S. (where I am). A Midwest U.S. dialect might also work, but I can't judge that as well.